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L1 and L2

 
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 8:44 am    Post subject: L1 and L2 Reply with quote

there is alot of research into the influence of L1 on L2. Is anyone aware of any work about the influence of L2 on L1?
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little horsey



Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Posts: 57
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not aware of any research on the effect of the L2 on the L1, but there has been a ton about the influence of the L1 on the L2. If you're interested in that, let me know.
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cheryl



Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Posts: 119
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only thing i've heard about the L2 affecting the L1 is when language learners begin to "forget" words in their L1 while in the process of learning an L2 or 3 or 4 (you get the msg Smile ). Although i can't say if this "knowledge" came from a specific researcher or if it was just an opinion of a professor. Sorry.
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Mike_2003



Joined: 27 Mar 2003
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that I my L1 is sometimes affected by the L1 of the people around me. The problem is that I have very few English-speaking colleagues or friends and sometimes I notice myself using incorrect grammar structures (but structures that would make sense in Turkish). Sometimes I have to think hard to remember whether it is an English expression or one that I've picked up from my Turkish friends' bad habits. For example, do we say "give a break" in English? I'm sure we don't, but I caught myself saying it the other day... Embarassed

This all makes perfect sense. If an American spent four years in London, or a Brit in NYC, or whatever, he would undoubtably pick up a few colloquial expressions and I suppose the same can happen for us when we are completely immersed in a country where the L1 is vastly different from our own so we hear the same mistakes day in day out. The problem only started once my Turkish improved, I guess because I had to learn to think using Turkish grammatical logic in order to speak it as fluenty as possible. Maybe my brain just can't handle two such dissimilar languages... Confused

I seem to be fine when I'm talking to another native speakers or my students ... thankfully.
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting question! From my own experience, I would say pronunciation is the first to fall victim to the influence of another language. This is especially easy to observe in English as its pronunciation rules are anything but logical. There are words you pronounce as in the language from which certain words are borrowed 9'garage' in British English, entourage).
Another area might be how people report telephone numbers: If you have lived in a French-speaking country or in Germany, you might pronounce the numbers in groups of two figures.

I am not sure this phenomenon has been studied, but I suggest
AN INTRODUCTION TO SECOND LANGUAGE ACQUISITION RESEARCH by Diane Larsen-Freeman and Michael H. Long (Pearson Education Ltd.). It has no chapter devoted to the influence of L2 on L1, but it has a long bibliographical list that might contain some works with useful insight on this topic.
Good luck
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richard ame



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Republic of Turkey

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 10:46 am    Post subject: L1 / L2 the downside Reply with quote

Hi
After living over here for the best part of a decade I should be at least semi fluent in Turkish however the opposite is true and one of the reasons for that is that I need to keep my own language as strong as it was when I first arrived this view has being reinforced by the number of ex native speakers I run across who have forgotten how to use short forms and speak their own language sooooo sloowlyyyy,these are the same people who prefer to use L2 most of the time in the classroom and have even lost touch with their own culture . I once had to cover classes for a final exam in a university for the prep classes ,the instructions were in English guess who translated them into L2 for the benefit of the students ? A fellow native speaker who had joined the ex fraternity I think unless he is actually speaking to a fellow native speaker he uses L2 ,am I missing something here or is that ever so slightly ott ?
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Lynn



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 677
Location: in between

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I lived in Japan I caught myself saying the most unnatural things...
"Oh him!....he's dangerous" giggle, giggle (not really dangerous)
"cola" or calling all soda "juice"
"nn" meaning uh-huh(yeah)

Now I teach mostly Spanish speaking students and I catch myself saying things like, "it is neccesary" or "it is possible"
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some waygug-in



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 339

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Just my 2 cents. When I first arrived at this "school" in Korea, I noticed that the teacher whom I was replacing spoke almost exclusively in pigeon English. "I go big building now". I was shocked and horrified and wondered what the Korean teachers must have thought of this. (Some of the Korean teachers speak quite fluently) He would even speak this way to me at times. I thought to myself,"I'm never going to do that." ...........................
But as the months passed, I find myself doing the same thing from time to time. Shocked I still try and fight the urge to do it, but dammit Jim, they seem to understand a whole lot easier if you make it sound like a Korean sentence. I usually only do it when I talk to my director, as her English is not so hot, so I speak in a way that she can understand. I try and make sure to speak properly in class.
I do do the speaking slowly in class thing. The kids' level of English is so low here that there is no point in trying to speak quickly. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, my 2 cents are gone, now I'm broke!
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guru



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Indonesia

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I speak L1 english l2 indonesian.

Sometimes i get the wrong word out in English or am halfway getting the wrong word out or sometimes can't even think of the English word, but i know it in indonesian.

The problem is i teach English but speak Indonesian at home as my first language. i also speak indonesian whever i go.

yes l2 does affect my l1 but not much.
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biffinbridge



Joined: 05 May 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Frank's Wild Years

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 8:47 am    Post subject: L2 Reply with quote

L2 no having change change L1.L1 same same before long time ago.Man he say L2 changing L1 speaking load of bollocks teacher.(Welcome to TEFL arabia.)
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