Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Non-native teachers of ESL?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject: Non-native teachers of ESL? Reply with quote

Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!

Is this a general drift of ESL?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17632
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? Reply with quote

Wolfsong wrote:
Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!

Is this a general drift of ESL?

This isn't a new trend; non-native speakers -- expats and nationals -- have been teaching in the region for some time. Plus, there's a push for qualified nationals to replace foreign workers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.

VS


Of course that would be the case but I should have been clearer. What I meant was that there seems to be a trend to look for non-native teachers in order to force the pay down. Some employers, private schools, unis want to employ non-natives in order to pay less.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Wolfsong



Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Wolfsong wrote:
Has anyone noticed that it seems to be becoming more common for agency ads not to stipulate native teachers of English for the Middle East? I've seen several agency ads asking for teachers of any nationality to teach ESL as long as an IELTS score of 7.5 is attained. It applies for schools, private businesses and universities!

Is this a general drift of ESL?

This isn't a new trend; non-native speakers -- expats and nationals -- have been teaching in the region for some time.


How long for approx? I ask because I have never come across non-native teachers being stipulated ever.

nomad soul wrote:
Plus, there's a push for qualified nationals to replace foreign workers.


In general areas of work yes, but I have never come across this in teaching until recently.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17632
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Non-native teachers of ESL? Reply with quote

Wolfsong wrote:

How long for approx? I ask because I have never come across non-native teachers being stipulated ever.

That is because they just don't specify at all.

I have seen ads where they specify level of English required... which naturally references non-native speakers.

VS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
E-Prime



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Non-native Speakers Reply with quote

If a non-native speaker teacher scores 7.5 on the IELTS band then his language proficiency is equivalent to that of a native speaker. Instead of having hangups about who is a native, and who isn't, the emphasis should instead be on proficiency. Some native speakers wouldn't even score a 7.5 on the IELTS band!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15330

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most native speakers would have problems scoring at that level. Both Australia an NZ award higher points to would-be--migrants on the basis of IELS scores. many native speakers now do that exam for this purpose. I have tested them. Some get very low scores, even those with supposedly professional qualifications.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lord T



Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wolfsong wrote:
veiledsentiments wrote:
Of course. As the pay, benefits, and conditions tank, so do the number of native speakers who will be interested.

VS


Of course that would be the case but I should have been clearer. What I meant was that there seems to be a trend to look for non-native teachers in order to force the pay down. Some employers, private schools, unis want to employ non-natives in order to pay less.


I think you are both right in what you say. I notice that countries such as Oman and Kuwait are clearly unable/unwilling to pay salaries that teachers from most Anglophone countries would consider attractive. Saudi is going the same way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11446
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord T wrote:
I notice that countries such as Oman and Kuwait are clearly unable/unwilling to pay salaries that teachers from most Anglophone countries would consider attractive. Saudi is going the same way.

Not all countries in the Gulf are equal. For example, Oman has never been as wealthy as the others in the GCC, and tiny Kuwait only has a small number of university English prep year programs.

Regardless, job seekers to the region -- native and nonnative speakers -- need to be realistic about how much they're worth, especially if they hold a degree unrelated to TESOL and minimal teaching experience. It is what it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Non-native Speakers Reply with quote

E-Prime wrote:
Some native speakers wouldn't even score a 7.5 on the IELTS band!


A native speaker is going to know things about his language, and be able to do things with his language that can't be tested on IELTS, but for teaching the Gulf Arabs those things are inconsequential. Things like idioms, colloquialisms, and English cadence serve only to get an English teacher fired if he tries to make the higher level Gulf Arabs aware of them. Even phrasal verbs can be a hazard to teach in the region. The world was not ordered in such a way for them to have to deal with such topics. The Gulf Arabs would be better off cashing in on the financial savings that non-native teachers provide.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Middle East Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China