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[backtochina2017]

My understanding is that if you are already in China going to a second school you need both a release letter and recommendation letter. However, if you are not in China, don't have a Z visa, applying from scratch either as a first time teacher in China or returning like I am trying to do you only need a recommendation letter.

The recommendation letter is to verify you have worked, so this is possibly a requirement to return to China. Right now, I have in theory all documents minus this recommendation letter from my previous school. The new school has their understanding of the situation that they need this recommendation letter and it needs to be the original letter not a copy.

Before you state if what I stated above is true or not, please answer these questions:

1. If the school has all documents for a teacher, do they go in person to the FEB first or do they have to apply online first?
2. If the school has to apply online first, do they have to scan documents?
3. If the school has to apply online first, do they then go to the FEB after the application is "accepted"?
4. Whenever they get around to going to the FEB, do they have to present the recommendation letter?
5. If they do not have to present the recommendation letter, do they need to present it later on in the process?
6. After they finish at the FEB, my understanding is they then go to the FAO to get the invitation letter. Is this correct?
7. Would the same documents be needed at the FAO?

If I cannot get a recommendation letter, is China out of the question or is there another way? I don't have a TEFL yet, if I had that would that increase my chances for a school to get my Z visa without a recommendation letter? I also hear of TESOL and CELTA. One reason why I haven't done this is that I don't know which one I should get. "Oh you have TEFL, but we only hire people with TESOL." Next job, "Oh, you have TEFL and TESOL, but we only hire people with CELTA." Is there one which knocks all the pins down and allows me to get any job or is it just a monkey certificate arbitrarily required by the school and there is no way to properly plan ahead?

Clarification needed and your thoughts please. Thanks in advance.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

Though the supposed "required" recommendation letter has been bandied about, it is up to the discretion of the foreign languages department/ FAO to issue a letter of recommendation. The letter of release is supposedly required, but I believe that FAO's know that othe FAO's can be sloppy and overlook the LORelease as long as you have no criminal record.

I have a letters of recommendation from stateside professors and only one letter of recommendation from a Chinese school. One school said that it was not required to issue either since i was returning Stateside for the summer and would be returning to China to work for another. I would be returning to Square One, even though the prospective employer could call the previous employer.

I submitted Letters of Rec and from one Chinese school and from two stateside professors as well as only one letter of release from the Chinese school. I had no problems.

The situation is volatile, so I recommend that you ask a recruiter, as well as your prospective Chinese employer what is required.

This is my one anecdotal piece of information. Others may chime in with experience otherwise, and you may find that (as usual) acting upon ordinances/laws issued from on high depend upon location and school.

Call your school/recruiter (or both) and find out.

That's your best bet. You may get five different accounts of their experiences, and they are all true.

This is the madness that is China.

[backtochina2017]

[hz88]

Some of this has already been answered previously, the problem is this is China and there is no one fits all solution.

To answer briefly your questions (based on my own knowledge of dealing with these things):

1. The initial application is online through the nationwide system which is identical no matter where the school applying throughout China. (It is due to be overhauled in January and totally replaced with the new system, all the FAO's in my province have been summoned to a meeting in Beijing on 6th January for training).

2. The initial documents are scanned and uploaded. They are then reviewed by the FEB, after a few days, the school will get a response, okay to proceed, rejected, or referred with the reasons for the referral (usually incorrect documents, discrepancies etc etc with an explanation as to what to do to remedy the situation).

3. Once accepted, we have to then print the relevant forms which are generated, visit the PSB and some other local departments, go to the provincial FEB in person with the accompanying paperwork. This seems to vary between province as to what needs to be original and what is not. Your intended school should know what their local officials need from their own past dealings.

4. The recommendation letter is not required for a NEW application as part of the online application, it is required for a transfer. What is required is a reference to prove two years teaching experience. If you do not possess a TEFL certificate, this is a definite must. Some provinces require both.

We have never been asked for the original reference but we do need the original recommendation letter in the case of transfers.

I think what is happening is that they are confusing the two things, if you are able to satisfy the requirement for an academic reference this should suffice.

5. Once the FEB approve the application and it has been signed off with the accompanying paperwork (from the local PSB, your documents etc etc), they will give an approval letter which is then taken to the Provincial Foreign Affairs Office (an entirely different department) who then issue the invitation letter.

6. The Foreign Affairs Office issue the invitation letter based on the approval of the FEB. They do not need the documents as the FEB has already given the approval.

In July, we were instructed that in the case of transfers we must communicate with the teachers new school and send the recommendation letter (original stamped copy and the original FEC cancellation letter) directly to the FAO at the new school. We also received incoming teachers documents in the same manner.

The best thing you can do is talk directly with your intended school, they should know what is required by their local officials but I do feel they are getting their wires crossed over the exact document required. The system will not be prompting for the recommendation letter as they are (or hopefully should be) in the part of the system for new applications, not transfers.

[OhBudPowellWhereArtThou]

My letters of recommendation from former profs were authenticated along with everything else back in 2003. I've never sent anything but a scan to an FAO. The Consulate gets the authenticated originals of everything when I apply for the z visa. It's all returned to me with my passport.

hz88's response should be a sticky.

[backtochina2017]

[hz88]

As often I answered your original post based on the questions you asked, the answers as I said given based on my own experiences in my province.

If I were you I would be directing your energy and questions at your intended school, they are the ones that will have experience dealing with the local officials and it is what they say goes. If they want A not B then that is that, whereas 100km up the road in xxx they may want C.

What you are talking about are several different matters which you are trying to muddle together into one.

Similar terms for documents often cause headaches hence why I said someone is getting their wires crossed:-

1. New applications,

letter of recommendation not required, reference letter from former employer with proof of two years teaching is required, depending on the province, a TEFL,TESOL or CELTA will be accepted instead of, in others both are needed

2. Transfers,

letter of recommendation and foreign experts cancellation certificate is required, the letter of recommendation is a simple reference from your most recent employer IN CHINA stating that you have fulfilled your contract and they have released you and your records and you are free to apply elsewhere

They have similar wordings and meanings but have different uses you need to follow (1) you are a NEW applicant.

I simply cannot say what the local officials are asking for as it depends on where your new school is, the system will prompt for a reference letter or TEFL etc certificate as long as one is uploaded it will progress, it is at the REVIEW stage where someone in the Foreign Experts Bureau checks the application they will either ask the school for additional documentation if that province requires it.

The Foreign Affairs Office is a Government department which issues the invitation letters and Foreign Experts Certificates and books, it is not the Foreign Experts Bureau, they just handle the paperwork and process applications.

FAO, can also mean Foreign Affairs OFFICER. This is usually a person at a University, High School or somewhere that is not a tin pot training center that has been assigned to deal not only with foreigners day to day issues but to deal with the inputting of these applications and as a point of contact between the school and the Government departments. He or she deals with all the paperwork.

As for authentication, if the province requires this then this is a separate issue, as was said previously, we cannot get approval for the invitation letter if the documents provided are not approved.

You need to do this before your application can even begin. If you use an agency then you send your documents to the agency and they do the legwork, if you do it yourself you take them to wherever it is they have to go.

After your application is approved and your invitation letter has been sent, all you need to do is take the invitation letter and your passport and some other paperwork the school will send you to the consulate and they will issue the z visa. They do not need to see the documents again as they were already verified before the issue of the invitation letter.

Its not really rocket science to figure this out given the multiple times this has cropped up.

What I will say is that the system is changing next month, this coupled with the impending Chinese New Year holiday is going to have an affect on new applications and inevitable delays. I suspect some schools will be putting off even bothering starting a new application until well after the holiday now.

[backtochina2017]

[hz88]

In the time I have been dealing with it, no consulate in any country has required sight of the original copies. My colleague from Wisconsin who just started this year said he used an agent who took care of everything including the application and they only wanted the invitation letter and supporting paperwork from the school.

We do ask teachers to bring the paperwork with them that was originally sent as we are asked to provide it as proof (only the degree and criminal record check) when we apply for the Foreign Experts Book. That rule was introduced last February, prior to that we didn't need it.

This seems to vary province to province, again the best person in the know would be the FAO at your intended school as they have dealings with the officials on a regular basis. I did hear that in Jiangsu the PSB are now requiring it for the resident permit but that is the only province that I am aware of that has followed that route.

It is after the application is submitted and the documents reviewed that you and your school will know if there are any issues. This is probably why most schools and agents just ask for everything they can think of so as not to waste time and money later.

Happy Christmas.