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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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 Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| I've said it before but the average foreign teacher's lesson in China doesn't mean diddly. It's window dressing at best. Sure there are exceptions, but I'm talking about the average. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Speak for yourself.
At my last school, students were interviewed orally in English for positions in the industry for year 2.
Oral English classes taught by me and my FT colleagues, materially helped the students.
The result was warped somewhat as the school always put forward the good looking ones for the best industry jobs. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Non Sequitur wrote: |
Speak for yourself.
At my last school, students were interviewed orally in English for positions in the industry for year 2.
Oral English classes taught by me and my FT colleagues, materially helped the students.
The result was warped somewhat as the school always put forward the good looking ones for the best industry jobs. |
That's why I said there are exceptions... |
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OhBudPowellWhereArtThou
Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 1168
Location: Since 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
| I've said it before but the average foreign teacher's lesson in China doesn't mean diddly. It's window dressing at best. Sure there are exceptions, but I'm talking about the average. |
I think "typical" would be a better choice of words. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| joe30 wrote: |
| That mentality (you're a slave to your employer, your work is your life) has permeated the whole of the West though, don't want it happening elsewhere too. |
Never heard of the union movement or socialism? Most western countries have excellent regulations to avoid such things. In fact, where is it better? Certainly not in China, where many spend their whole day at work and are too scared to go home in case the boss disapproves. Then don't be surprised to get a call on Sunday or in the middle of your holiday to say there is a meeting, or that you should run down to the hardware store because the boss needs a hammer (happened to my wife on a Sunday). |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: |
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Typical is the better word choice...
Generally, I don't value generalizations 
China's second language policies and private sector achieve what they do. The scale of China's move into "developed" economies is unprecedented and how the "Big Five" tertiary institutions have both accommodated and profited from it are compelling issues. Comparisons to other nations aren't of much value. And many assertions in a forum are anecdotal (to be expected and often useful), but should be routinely qualified.
What is typical to me required years to experience and assimilate. Where I landed in China was off the beaten path among a small staff (6) of which every member was, by Bear's term, exceptional. And I suppose that is ironic, to some posters, as university pay is the lowest going, even with a Master's or PhD.
The diversity of the Chinese market gums up more than a few conversations on the China boards. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Ok, so it's typical not average, but the point still stands. The foreign teacher's class is seen as a token gesture by a large (I'm going to say majority) of employers (universities).
The 'real' teaching as I've heard locals call it, is done by Chinese teachers. Not saying I agree, just saying how it's viewed. |
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papuadn
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| The bear wrote: |
Ok, so it's typical not average, but the point still stands. The foreign teacher's class is seen as a token gesture by a large (I'm going to say majority) of employers (universities).
The 'real' teaching as I've heard locals call it, is done by Chinese teachers. Not saying I agree, just saying how it's viewed. |
It's not in the interest of Chinese teachers to value exposure to native English speakers (termed authentic speech in research) because the majority of Chinese teachers are concerned with GaoKao scores with no oral component. Moreover, the GaoKao has de-emphasized English by reducing the number of questions from 150 to 100. "Peak" demand is behind us, but numbers by China's scale are unlike any other.
Mix the challenges there are to policy, Chinese biases and expat misbehavior (in no particular order), and wildly different opinions are inevitable.
Affording employees from across a globe is reasonable because it's a solution as approximate as possible to effective (real world) proficiency. Most Chinese students won't go abroad, but a large number will engage English via commerce, tourism, etc. China's policy was dead serious in this regard some fifteen years ago. The funding was and is substantial.
I don't mean to argue the point, or negatively so anyways-- there's a why involved to what you posted and some of it has basis and some of it doesn't. |
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The bear
Joined: 16 Aug 2015
Posts: 483
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| papuadn wrote: |
| The bear wrote: |
Ok, so it's typical not average, but the point still stands. The foreign teacher's class is seen as a token gesture by a large (I'm going to say majority) of employers (universities).
The 'real' teaching as I've heard locals call it, is done by Chinese teachers. Not saying I agree, just saying how it's viewed. |
It's not in the interest of Chinese teachers to value exposure to native English speakers (termed authentic speech in research) because the majority of Chinese teachers are concerned with GaoKao scores with no oral component. Moreover, the GaoKao has de-emphasized English by reducing the number of questions from 150 to 100. "Peak" demand is behind us, but numbers by China's scale are unlike any other.
Mix the challenges there are to policy, Chinese biases and expat misbehavior (in no particular order), and wildly different opinions are inevitable.
Affording employees from across a globe is reasonable because it's a solution as approximate as possible to effective (real world) proficiency. Most Chinese students won't go abroad, but a large number will engage English via commerce, tourism, etc. China's policy was dead serious in this regard some fifteen years ago. The funding was and is substantial.
I don't mean to argue the point, or negatively so anyways-- there's a why involved to what you posted and some of it has basis and some of it doesn't. |
Yeah, I wasn't doubting there was 'no why' 
In theory Chinese teachers should use TBLT as the teaching methodology/approach of choice - the 2001 Ministry of Education directive outlined that, however go into a Chinese classroom and you'll see little that resembles tasks. More like memorization and grammar points.
As you said a large reason is that the gaokao favours grammar/vocab over communication.
I've written papers on this and presented at conferences on this topic. Strangely enough, there's hope for the future in that certain provinces are removing English from the Gaokao - which could mean that the 'teach for the test' approach could fall out of favour and an alternative methodology emerge. Time will tell. |
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