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The Growing Acceptance of Non-Native Speakers of English

 
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Do you see NNEST teachers more often where you are?
Yes, the population is clearly growing
68%
 68%  [ 11 ]
Some, but not enough to call it a market shift
25%
 25%  [ 4 ]
Absolutely not - what a silly idea!!
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 16

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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11347
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: The Growing Acceptance of Non-Native Speakers of English Reply with quote

...in ESL/EFL.

Over the past decades across much of Northern and Western Europe, more and more (and now probably 'most' in many places) teachers of EFL are qualified locals. I am aware that this is becoming more true in some of Russia as well.

The market shift towards NNESTs seems to be growing in the wider world, as evidenced by the existence of the website below (the 7 December post there is somewhat arguable depending on your political views, but the site seems fairly reputable and reasonable overall).

I think this movement is inevitable and reasonable, but obviously the local market has to reach a point where there are sufficient qualified locals to do most of the jobs!

I think it could be interesting (and useful to newbies) to pool our ideas about where the job markets have reached this point, are getting close, are moving in that direction, and those that are ages and ages away still:-)

(Oh, yeah, and the website is called TEFL Equity advocates)
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 754

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the days of the NES teacher as a marketable commodity are clearly numbered.

I was at a conference at Federal Far Eastern University in Vladivostok last July and with the exception of some of the guest speakers and 2 presenters in the parallel session the participants and presenters were all NNES (and not all Russian). There were large contingents from Korea, Japan, China and Indonesia (home of the 2017 Asia TEFL international conference).

The quality of research AND the ability to communicate at very high academic levels was not significantly different from that presented at the TESOL conference in Toronto (the last one I attended in North America); a discussion point over dinner on the final evening.

I think the lines are fast becoming blurred between NES and NNES at the top end of the scale however at the bottom end of the scale the difference in linguistic ability is still clearly evident. In Thailand as an example, last year, the Ministry of Education tested all public school Thai nationals who were "English teachers" and out of 43000 tested, over 40,000 were at level A2 or below.

Thailand still imports a large number of English teachers but the requirements for a visa and/or continued employment are changing.
In 2002 you could work as a teacher simply based on your passport (NES by nationality).

In 2004 the rules changed and by 2006 all teachers were supposed to have a minimum of a bachelor degree. In 2010 they implemented the requirement of obtaining a "teacher's license" within 4 years. Although poorly implemented and seldom enforced this is the current state of affairs.

In light of this there has been a large influx of NNES teachers who are actually teachers (B.Ed and licensed) from other ASEAN nations (primarily the Philippines). Again, badly implemented and poorly enforced (lots of them can't do any better than B1 or B2 on a proficiency test and many without teaching credentials still get work) they are on the rise as a teaching force in SE Asia.

They are also being actively recruited for the much larger Chinese market and have a notable presence in Brunei, Malaysia, Myanmar and even in Singapore as well as Thailand.

.
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plumpy nut



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 1652

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indians and Filipinos can easily teach English. For students many who don't care these teachers are cost effective and just as good, in many cases just as good edutainers.
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 484
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

suphanburi wrote:
I was at a conference at Federal Far Eastern University in Vladivostok last July


AsiaTEFL 2016! I was slated to attend that, glad to hear it was good.

David Graddol mentions some ideas about NNESTs and "the necessity" of NESTs in his excellent works The Future of English? A Guide to Forecasting the Popularity of the English Language in the 21st Century (1997) and English Next (2006)--they are worth perusing.

Links to pick up free copies available at the bottom of the following website:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Graddol

Quote:
I think it could be interesting (and useful to newbies) to pool our ideas about where the job markets have reached this point, are getting close, are moving in that direction, and those that are ages and ages away still:-)


In China, naturally there is a huge pool of NNESTs with a very wide-ranging spectrum of teaching abilities and English proficiency. Overall and generally speaking, there is also still the high desire for the NEST here--time will tell if that will eventually abate.

twowheel
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Dr X



Joined: 04 Jul 2016
Posts: 84
Location: Everywhere

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is 'nativeness' a job requirement to teach English?
If yes, then I think it is a discriminatory practice against NNESTs.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11347
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is 'nativeness' a job requirement to teach English?


I don't think it is in most places I have lived/worked, but I suppose in some locations it may still be.
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RedLightning



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 81
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr X wrote:
Is 'nativeness' a job requirement to teach English?
If yes, then I think it is a discriminatory practice against NNESTs.


-To be perfectly honest, the only NNESTs I've come across who sincerely do not possess an sort of 'fault' (and therein detriment to their students' learning) lived in the US/UK for several years prior to.
A highly qualified NNEST will more than likely be a much better teacher than Joe Blow the backpacker, but when all else is equal it's difficult to argue that a NEST is not more advantageous.
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Alien abductee



Joined: 08 Jun 2014
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twowheel, the pdf links you mentioned are no longer valid. Thanks for the tip all the same because it helped me find some working links here:

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=david+graddol+the+future+of+english
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 484
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alien abductee wrote:
twowheel, the pdf links you mentioned are no longer valid. Thanks for the tip all the same because it helped me find some working links here:

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q=david+graddol+the+future+of+english


D'oh! Crying or Very sad Apologies and many thanks for informing us that those links are invalid. I'm glad that you found some working ones to still get your hands on those materials, which I do maintain are interesting and useful.

twowheel
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Arenta



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed it most in the last 2-3 years. As someone mentioned,NNESTs are more cost effective. The poll also shows a majority have noticed the shift.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2208
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedLightning wrote:
Dr X wrote:
Is 'nativeness' a job requirement to teach English?
If yes, then I think it is a discriminatory practice against NNESTs.


-To be perfectly honest, the only NNESTs I've come across who sincerely do not possess an sort of 'fault' (and therein detriment to their students' learning) lived in the US/UK for several years prior to.
A highly qualified NNEST will more than likely be a much better teacher than Joe Blow the backpacker, but when all else is equal it's difficult to argue that a NEST is not more advantageous.


AMEN Exclamation
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2208
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Vietnam there has been a HUGE increase in the number of NNES teachers in the last five years or so. Of course a lot of them are from the Philippines but anyone who is white (or white "enough") can get some job teaching English it seems no matter how poor their level of English actually is.
Combine that with the fact that Vietnamese English teachers are simply terrible (few exceptions but that seems to be the case). The Vietnamese who teach/hire/recruit/study can not even tell the difference between a NES and a NNES teacher let alone between two different NES accents. You can see why almost any white monkey can get a job in Vietnam Rolling Eyes
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