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Accepting online degrees
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learningpaths



Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Accepting online degrees Reply with quote

Hi,

Does anyone know if a country in the GCC will accept an online/distance masters?

Thanks
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Likely just Oman... for now. But it's a no-go for Qatar (only a small portion can be online); Bahrain; Kuwait; and Saudi Arabia (not an issue for business/work visit visas, however). The UAE does not accept online teaching licenses for k12 positions and may start to reject degrees completed online, if the government doesn't already.
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learningpaths



Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. My undergraduate was residential, but I don't have the time or funds to take a year or two off to study in England.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17632
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to the UAE, the Ministry of Education (K-12) has never accepted any online training, but the Ministry of Higher Education at university level did in the past. But since the two ministries of merged into one, it seems no online training is accepted for any level.

I'm not sure if the rules extends to private colleges/universities.

VS
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
As to the UAE, the Ministry of Education (K-12) has never accepted any online training, but the Ministry of Higher Education at university level did in the past. But since the two ministries of merged into one, it seems no online training is accepted for any level.



Uh huh. My views on not accepting qualifications obtained via distance education have been expressed elsewhere several times. However, I've been lurking around several websites that advertise international positions for Western licensed teachers lately and I have been bombarded with advertisements for ADEC and other related UAE programs. If you go to the website SeekTeachers then you will see there are currently over 1,100 advertisements for school teachers for the UAE. BTW, I wouldn't regard the UAE as a huge country. If they are getting the desired number of applications then they've got a funny way of showing it. Why they would want to make things even harder for themselves is beyond me, but, then again, whilst interesting, I guess that's not my bag Confused.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
Quote:
Since the two ministries of merged into one, it seems no online training is accepted for any level.

You will see there are currently over 1,100 advertisements for school teachers for the UAE. BTW, I wouldn't regard the UAE as a huge country. If they are getting the desired number of applications then they've got a funny way of showing it. Why they would want to make things even harder for themselves is beyond me, but, then again, whilst interesting, I guess that's not my bag Confused.

That's because the UAE tops the list with the most English-medium international schools worldwide --- 589 as of 2016, which is more than China. (See http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/education/uae-has-most-international-schools-globally-1.1899689.)

Here's my take on one reason why the UAE gov't (and schools) say 'no' to online qualifications. Considering Emiratis represent about 10% of the UAE's population, Emirati children definitely aren't the only demographic requiring an education; there are plenty of native and near-native English speaking children residing in the UAE. Parents seeking an IB or western-accredited education for their children expect the teachers to be properly qualified and holding experience with the educational system from their home country. For Americans, Canadians, and others from Anglophone countries, this ensures their children's education is a continuation of the learning they would have received back home. Simiarly, many Emirati and parents from other non-western countries send their children to western-curriculum private schools as well.

A teacher living abroad who studied online for his US teaching license in order to snag a decent international school position in China will not have the experience of his counterpart living in the US who took classes toward licensure (as well as endorsements) and subsequently, gained supervised experience in a US public school. In other words, the latter has direct/hands-on teaching experience with the curriculum and with diverse learners in a multinational, American learning environment. He/she has also received the requisite professional development and continuing education that comes with teaching. Compare that scenario with the American gaining his experience teaching nationals in China. It's not difficult to figure out which teacher fits the bill, especially since parents in the UAE pay big money for their children's education. It's also why some recruiters hold job fairs in the US, UK, Canada, etc.
.
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I-forgot



Joined: 28 Jun 2015
Posts: 153
Location: Riyadh

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nomad Soul has given a very rational and reasonable explanation as to why online degrees are not accepted.

I confess that I have always thought there was an easier explanation - the assumption that online degrees mean that you can pay someone else to do the work for you.

I know a few people in the Middle East who have done just that and I also know one of the phd 'tutors' hired by those people. Easiest job of her life, apparently!
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learningpaths



Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand the cheating side of it, but there are some of us that have to work remotely and can't get back to a brick and morter.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

learningpaths wrote:
I can understand the cheating side of it, but there are some of us that have to work remotely and can't get back to a brick and morter.


Plenty of people have to work remotely and, the fact is, it's expensive to live in a Western country. For many of us, living there and not working full-time is not an option. I can afford to study full-time via distance education for a year in the Philippines, and I am currently doing so, but I couldn't afford to do it as an internal student back in Australia.

In regards to cheating, students can do that whether they are studying internally or externally. There is nothing to stop any student handing in an assignment that's not their own. Indeed, I'd say the incidences of cheating among on-campus students is probably higher. If you are an internal enrollment then you met people, make friends with other students who may have done a similar assessment the previous year, or semester, and who are prepared to lend it to you. Make a few alterations so you don't get caught and Bob's your uncle.

In regards to supervised examinations, for my PGCE, I've only had one and the examination supervisor can't just be anybody. In my case, all the documents were mailed directly to the Head of Assessment for my college in Oman via DHL. She was an American, had a doctorate in education from a U.S. university and something like thirty years' teaching experience. When it was time to sit the exam, I went into a classroom and it was just her and I until the clock ran out. Could I have still cheated? Perhaps. However, I would have fancied my chances of success much more as an internal enrollment where I would have been just one of maybe a hundred students in an auditorium which had two or three invigilators.

nomad soul wrote:

That's because the UAE tops the list with the most English-medium international schools worldwide --- 589 as of 2016, which is more than China. (See http://gulfnews.com/news/uae/education/uae-has-most-international-schools-globally-1.1899689.)

Here's my take on one reason why the UAE gov't (and schools) say 'no' to online qualifications. Considering Emiratis represent about 10% of the UAE's population, Emirati children definitely aren't the only demographic requiring an education; there are plenty of native and near-native English speaking children residing in the UAE. Parents seeking an IB or western-accredited education for their children expect the teachers to be properly qualified and holding experience with the educational system from their home country. For Americans, Canadians, and others from Anglophone countries, this ensures their children's education is a continuation of the learning they would have received back home. Simiarly, many Emirati and parents from other non-western countries send their children to western-curriculum private schools as well.

A teacher living abroad who studied online for his US teaching license in order to snag a decent international school position in China will not have the experience of his counterpart living in the US who took classes toward licensure (as well as endorsements) and subsequently, gained supervised experience in a US public school. In other words, the latter has direct/hands-on teaching experience with the curriculum and with diverse learners in a multinational, American learning environment. He/she has also received the requisite professional development and continuing education that comes with teaching. Compare that scenario with the American gaining his experience teaching nationals in China. It's not difficult to figure out which teacher fits the bill, especially since parents in the UAE pay big money for their children's education. It's also why some recruiters hold job fairs in the US, UK, Canada, etc.
.


Just a couple of points. We seem to agree that there is a very high demand currently for licensed Western teachers in the UAE. My original post was simply saying that they are making it harder for themselves to meet that demand by refusing to accept qualifications from accredited, Western universities that offer distance education. They are obviously limiting their options and I stand by what I said.

I have no idea what is required to get a teaching license via distance education in the United States, but, if it doesn't cover exactly the same things and standards that would be required for an on-campus student to get the same qualification, then, yeah, I disagree with it. However, I can assure you, that's not the case with what I'm doing. I'm doing exactly the same things as an on-campus student would. That includes teaching practicums at real schools in Australia. After completing my qualification, then I will eligible to register in any state or territory in Oz as a certified secondary teacher. Gaining the post-graduate teaching experience comes later, but, that has nothing to do with whether the qualification was initially earned via distance learning or internally.


Last edited by 1st Sgt Welsh on Sat May 27, 2017 9:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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learningpaths



Joined: 28 Apr 2017
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Plenty of people have to work remotely and, the fact is, it's expensive to live in a Western country. For many of us, living there and not working full-time is not an option. I can afford to study full-time via distance education for a year in the Philippines, and I am currently doing so, but I couldn't afford to do it as an internal student back in Australia.

In regards to cheating, students can do that whether they are studying internally or externally. There is nothing to stop any student handing in an assignment that's not their own. Indeed, I'd say the incidences of cheating among on-campus students is probably higher. If you are an internal enrollment then you met people, make friends with other students who may have done a similar assessment the previous year, or semester, and who are prepared to lend it to you. Make a few alterations so you don't get caught and Bob's your uncle


I completely agree.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
I'm doing exactly the same things as an on-campus student would. That includes teaching practicums at real schools in Australia. After completing my qualification, then I will eligible to register in any state or territory in Oz as a certified secondary teacher. Gaining the post-graduate teaching experience comes later, but, that has nothing to do with whether the qualification was initially earned via distance learning or internally.

The curriculum for degree and teaching qualification programs may be the same; however, the mode of instruction is what those GCC governments have an issue with. That's what gets checked during the visa application process. (If it gets that far; some job seekers are asked during their interview if they studied for their credentials via online/distance learning.) It is what it is. Maybe the regs will have loosened by the time you've gained experience teaching in your home country.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:

The curriculum for degree and teaching qualification programs may be the same; however, the mode of instruction is what those GCC governments have an issue with. That's what gets checked during the visa application process. (If it gets that far; some job seekers are asked during their interview if they studied for their credentials via online/distance learning.) It is what it is. Maybe the regs will have loosened by the time you've gained experience teaching in your home country.


Agreed.
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RedLightning



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 133
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st Sgt Welsh wrote:
nomad soul wrote:

The curriculum for degree and teaching qualification programs may be the same; however, the mode of instruction is what those GCC governments have an issue with. That's what gets checked during the visa application process. (If it gets that far; some job seekers are asked during their interview if they studied for their credentials via online/distance learning.) It is what it is. Maybe the regs will have loosened by the time you've gained experience teaching in your home country.


Agreed.


Agree to everything as well, although the situation is rather ridiculous considering that there are (obviously) no such anti-online restrictions in the actual West.
However, I have witnessed a certain prejudice among administration in the U.S. against teaching applicants who attained their teaching qualification via online programs (despite these administrators themselves having attained their principal certifications online).
What with the whole 21st century/technology oriented classroom push in K-12, I do tend to think that the Gulf countries will eventually do away with the restriction currently in place.
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currentaffairs



Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, with the amount of useless online degrees to be had, and mostly emanating from the US, it doesn't give employers much confidence if they see that you got your degree from Trump University or University of Phoenix, etc. I think a lot of the so-called 'prejudice' or concern may be well founded... There could be some good programs but hard to see the wood for the trees.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

currentaffairs wrote:
Well, with the amount of useless online degrees to be had, and mostly emanating from the US, it doesn't give employers much confidence if they see that you got your degree from Trump University or University of Phoenix, etc. I think a lot of the so-called 'prejudice' or concern may be well founded... There could be some good programs but hard to see the wood for the trees.


Sure, but, on the other hand, Harvard and Yale offer online units as well. As I've stated elsewhere before, instead of making the distinction between off-campus and on-campus attendance, make the distinction between accredited and non-accredited institutions. My understanding was that the UAE, or at least one of their educational ministries, used to accept degrees via distance education, provided it was from an accepted institution and there was a list of universities and colleges that were deemed acceptable. Seemed like a pretty commonsense and practical approach to me, but, they obviously thought it was better to get rid of it.

OK, they are free to do so, just as they are free to deal with the resultant increase in teacher shortages in their own way. It doesn't make a hell of lot sense to me, but, then again, it doesn't have to. A certified Western teacher, with a distance educational qualification and a couple of years' experience, can work anywhere in the world. They're fine. If the UAE wants to make it unnecessarily harder for themselves then, OK, that's their decision and, as far as I'm concerned, leave 'em to it. Maybe they will review their policies, maybe they won't, but, in the meantime, like I said, the teachers have any number of available options.
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