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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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 Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:10 am Post subject: |
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P.S
It's not that I'm only interested in a biz visa. I'd much rather have a proper visa but a biz visa does have some advantages in terms of process time, assuming of course it's with a genuine company. |
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: |
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[b]
| Arenta wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Since you're only interested in a business/work visit visa, you're going to run into some sketchiness. That's the norm for companies that often use these visa types. You might want to think twice about pursuing work on a biz visa with such outfits. |
This is much more than sketchiness, it's downright strange. When they're asked straightforward questions they don't bother replying and only much later reply to ask about the progress of a non-existent visa they claim they've sent.
When I first asked them what the procedure was for the visa I got the reply "in about 3 weeks" ! When they eventually send what turns out to be an invitation letter only and I tell them this, they wait a few weeks before asking what the progress on the visa is ! When I tell them for the second time it's not a visa they just don't reply. I fully expect to get another email at some future point completely ignoring all over again what I've told them and asking me what the progress is on the non-existent visa.  Or maybe they won't bother and will contact me again next year,as they did last year and this year and starting the whole fiasco over again. |
[/b
I was always under the impression that for a business/ visa visit, all you need is an invitation letter with a photo, passport and some forms. I am assuming that is why they are asking you about the status of it. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
I was always under the impression that for a business/ visa visit, all you need is an invitation letter with a photo, passport and some forms. I am assuming that is why they are asking you about the status of it. |
It may be true that that is all you need but it isn't what they told me, e.g they said they would email me the visa and would pay for it. They even called the invitation letter a "visa" and told me to take it to the embassy to have it stamped into my passport.
This is not the first time they've brought people in on biz visas so they obviously know the difference between them and invitation letters. Even allowing for the possibility it was just a mistake sending the invitation letter instead of the visa, they could have sent the visa the next day briefly explaining the mistake. But they didn't. So they obviously hadn't even applied for the visa. No doubt they were expecting me to do so while I was at the embassy, pay associated costs and probably never be able to claim them back despite them saying they would pay for it !
Oh, and when I told the person supposedly dealing with the visa the first time that it wasn't a visa I received a reply saying his email hadn't "been working", he'd only just received my email and asking what was the progress on the visa?! So why cold he not have just sent the visa by return mail instead of completely ignoring the fact I'd told him it was an invitation letter? Again I replied it was only an invitation letter and asked when would the visa arrive from them? Only silence followed. I CC ed several other people in on the email. Could none of them have replied if only to say the visa was being dealt with and they would be in touch again??? No. It's very strange to say the least. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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I could be totally confused here, but I have always received visas from embassies... NEVER directly from an employer.
I think what we have here is a communication problem. They expect you to take the invitation letter to the embassy to get a visa stamped in your passport.
Or... I could be wrong as Saudi tends to change rules and procedures regularly.
VS |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ditto that. The communications and terminology are at issue. No one gets their visa emailed to them; processing is done by the Saudi consulate once it has the passport, visa application, payment, and all requisite paperwork.
A visa agent would be helpful in Arenta's situation if she plans to continue pursuing work on a biz visa regardless of who the sponsor is. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
I could be totally confused here, but I have always received visas from embassies... NEVER directly from an employer.
I think what we have here is a communication problem. They expect you to take the invitation letter to the embassy to get a visa stamped in your passport.
Or... I could be wrong as Saudi tends to change rules and procedures regularly.
VS |
But was your visa a full work visa or was it a biz visa? That could make a difference. And maybe the rules in Saudi are different to some other countries?
I could accept it being a communication problem except for the fact that one of the interviewers was a native English speaker who told me the visa would be emailed to me. So there's no chance of there being a language problem! Plus the fact that I was subsequently told this by email by one of their Saudi people who was supposedly dealing with the visa. Neither is there any viable explanation of why long silences followed between being sent the invitation letter and explaining twice that it wasn't a visa, especially since around 5 other people were cc ed into the email from them which I answered including all 5 people when I informed them twice it wasn't a visa. All 5 people maintain silence about this? No. Completely implausible, |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
Ditto that. The communications and terminology are at issue. No one gets their visa emailed to them; processing is done by the Saudi consulate once it has the passport, visa application, payment, and all requisite paperwork.
A visa agent would be helpful in Arenta's situation if she plans to continue pursuing work on a biz visa regardless of who the sponsor is. |
Haven't you said several times you have never worked on a biz visa? If it's the case that a visa, of whatever type, is only issued when all the documentation you mention is in place, and I've no reason to doubt that, this then again raises the question of why I was told it was a visa.
Not only that but if you or anyone as a sponsor was told by the teacher that you had sent an invitation letter only you wouldn't respond by ignoring that and asking what the progress on the "visa" is. Neither would the 5 other people cc ed into the email you sent to the teacher. And of course you and the 5 others wouldn't ignore it a second time being told the same most of all!
As mentioned above, there was also a native speaker - one of the interviewers involved who was the employment agent. I cc ed him into the recent email explaining for the second time that it wasn't a visa and asking when the visa would arrive. So 6 people involved but not one of them can reply??? Also the fact that the native speaking agent told me in the interview that it would be emailed to me and the company would pay for it. But all of a sudden I'm sent an invitation letter and expected to go to the embassy and arrange the visa through a visa agent and pay for it myself? A visa agent would only be helpful if as you suggested earlier, that the company had put it in writing that the fee would be paid by them. Either that or I had been told in the beginning that they wouldn't pay for the visa and I had accepted that. What's happening here is neither of those things. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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What I think is happening is as some others have mentioned in other threads: I've been told what they think I wanted to hear but without them having any intention of paying for the visa.
It was also mentioned that the time to get there was getting close (which it is) thereby creating a sense of urgency for the teacher. In other words, something along the lines that Hash suggested. From my experience and from what others have said, there seems to be a spate of companies sending out contracts with or without interviews, thereby making things look "official". After all, if this is the first time this has happened to you and you receive the contract, it's totally reasonable to think everything is genuine until you get hit with the bill for the visa and associated costs despite being told they would handle, pay for it and email it to you. It's only from being in this situation that you would know how to deal with it if it happened in the future. The hindsight effect. If sponsors are getting stressed at the time scale why do they leave such long gaps between getting in contact with the people they've given the job too? Or is that a naive question?
But anyway, I'm wondering if this is a new way of working for sponsors in general or if it's been going on for some time? If the former, what has led to this confused change? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:58 am Post subject: |
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ALL visas come from embassies... not from employers. That is true whether it is a work visa, work visit visa, visit visa, business visa, tourist visa, haj visa...
If you have noted all the confusion amongst the "native speakers" here on Dave's about visas for the last 20 years, the fact that a "native speaker" at the recruiter misinformed you shouldn't be a surprise. 
VS |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Arenta wrote: |
If it's the case that a visa, of whatever type, is only issued when all the documentation you mention is in place, and I've no reason to doubt that, this then again raises the question of why I was told it was a visa.
....
As mentioned above, there was also a native speaker - one of the interviewers involved who was the employment agent. I cc ed him into the recent email explaining for the second time that it wasn't a visa and asking when the visa would arrive. So 6 people involved but not one of them can reply??? Also the fact that the native speaking agent told me in the interview that it would be emailed to me and the company would pay for it. But all of a sudden I'm sent an invitation letter and expected to go to the embassy and arrange the visa through a visa agent and pay for it myself? |
Seriously, no one can get into the heads of those intervewers to rationalize their behavior. They're either suspect, clueless or both. You're going to have to accept that or you can keep obsessing about it.
| and Arenta wrote: |
What I think is happening is as some others have mentioned in other threads: I've been told what they think I wanted to hear but without them having any intention of paying for the visa.
....
But anyway, I'm wondering if this is a new way of working for sponsors in general or if it's been going on for some time? If the former, what has led to this confused change? |
We're not privy to the specifics of your interactions with this sponsor's reps, but it's very likely they used the old passive-aggressive tactic of telling you what you wanted to hear if they felt you were pesky in asking them to pay for your visa up front. (After all, they're running a for-profit business.) It's a way to get you off their backs and is reinforced by their misinformation and silence in response to your subsequent questions. Perhaps they're hoping you'd get frustrated and just move on --- that they'd rather not continue with their offer to hire you.
Again, contracting companies that often use biz visas for long-term work situations also tend to be highly sketchy; you'll be hard pressed to find a gem of a sponsor that uses these visas. Plus, that particular company hasn't been around that long, which is a major red flag on its own.
As a female, your options are extremely limited if you're only targeting job ads that mention a biz/work visit visa.
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Foo_Fighters_Dave
Joined: 09 Dec 2016
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Arenta wrote: |
What [b]I think is happening is as some others have mentioned in other threads: I've been told what they think I wanted to hear but without them having any intention of paying for the visa.
It was also mentioned that the time to get there was getting close (which it is) thereby creating a sense of urgency for the teacher. In other words, something along the lines that Hash suggested. From my experience and from what others have said, there seems to be a spate of companies sending out contracts with or without interviews, thereby making things look "official". After all, if this is the first time this has happened to you and you receive the contract, it's totally reasonable to think everything is genuine until you get hit with the bill for the visa and associated costs despite being told they would handle, pay for it and email it to you. It's only from being in this situation that you would know how to deal with it if it happened in the future. The hindsight effect. If sponsors are getting stressed at the time scale why do they leave such long gaps between getting in contact with the people they've given the job too? Or is that a naive question?
But anyway, I'm wondering if this is a new way of working for sponsors in general or if it's been going on for some time? If the former, what has led to this confused change? |
[/b]
Why don't you cut bait and look for another job? It is clear that you have been misinformed and there is a serious lack of communication. It sucks that they only sent an invation letter and my guess is they want you to bring that to a visa agent and work on a biz visa. Either or, rather then be upset with this, let it go and find something else. You should be able to find another job. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
If you have noted all the confusion amongst the "native speakers" here on Dave's about visas for the last 20 years, the fact that a "native speaker" at the recruiter misinformed you shouldn't be a surprise.
VS |
It's one thing for job applicants to be confused about the visas but I wouldn't have expected the native speaking recruiter to be confused about it though !
Last edited by Arenta on Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
Seriously, no one can get into the heads of those interviewers to rationalize their behavior. They're either suspect, clueless or both. You're going to have to accept that or you can keep obsessing about it. |
No we can't get into the heads of these people. But I've put forward what I think has been happening and there's no obsessing about it from me, only an explanation of what's been happening which might be helpful for others if they deal with this company.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| We're not privy to the specifics of your interactions with this sponsor's reps |
I think I've been very specific on my communications with this company but anyway...
| nomad soul wrote: |
| but it's very likely they used the old passive-aggressive tactic of telling you what you wanted to hear if they felt you were pesky in asking them to pay for your visa up front. (After all, they're running a for-profit business.) It's a way to get you off their backs and is reinforced by their misinformation and silence in response to your subsequent questions. Perhaps they're hoping you'd get frustrated and just move on --- that they'd rather not continue with their offer to hire you. |
It's possible but unlikely since they contacted me with the "visa" after I had not heard from them since the interview. If they didn't want to go ahead with the offer they could have chosen not to contact me at all again. They contacted me in the first place with the job offer, not me them.
| nomad soul wrote: |
As a female, your options are extremely limited if you're only targeting job ads that mention a biz/work visit visa.
. |
As mentioned twice before, I'm not only targeting those kind of jobs. For many people biz visas work out fine. Like I've said, there's advantages/disadvantages to both kinds of visa. People's personal circumstances vary. What's suitable for one person might not be for another. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Foo_Fighters_Dave wrote: |
Why don't you cut bait and look for another job? It is clear that you have been misinformed and there is a serious lack of communication. It sucks that they only sent an invation letter and my guess is they want you to bring that to a visa agent and work on a biz visa. Either or, rather then be upset with this, let it go and find something else. You should be able to find another job. |
Yes I'm confident in being able to find another job and have in fact been offered two other jobs which I'm considering. I've already given up on this one and am only posting about it to share my experience which might help others if they come across this company.
It seems almost certain that they wanted me to take the letter and apply for the visa through an agent. This is the reason I told the agent to hold on making any arrangements on the visa. |
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Arenta
Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 125
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