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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| now_or_never wrote: |
| rxk22 wrote: |
Japan in no way needs unfettered immigration like the West. I like how even "inner city" Tokyo and Osaka are pretty safe. With mass immigration, that would no longer be true.
I am sorry, but until a country has become fully developed, and has a lower birth rate and a high education rate, it's people should not have access to open borders. It would cause, and in fact does cause all kinds of chaos. Education, special social services, and crime. I as a long term Japanese resident, do not wish to see this. |
Aren't you an immigrant? |
 Shhh....
The really "funny" thing is that if I were to survey his Japanese neighbors--or he my neighbors--most of them would argue just as he does, that all foreigners are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed in this country. If pressed, most (but not all) would then (hopefully) add, "But that rxk22 (or taikibansei) is okay...for a foreigner."
Japanese ideas of racial purity--and the need to maintain this purity through denying access to "outsiders" (broadly defined and often including native Japanese)--have both contributed to the current political and demographic challenges (including a deepening crisis caused by the rapidly shrinking population) and prevented Japan’s leaders from responding effectively to these challenges. When the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami struck, foreign volunteers, including myself, were among the first respondents to the disaster zone. (I lived within easy driving distance.) And then once things sort of stabilized, newspaper articles started coming out citing rumors of looting by foreigners (which even the POLICE denied happened...), and then Japanese government pressure stopped our individual efforts. Sadly, these efforts were never adequately replaced; my last trip along the coast in 2016 found a series of ghost towns, with the vast majority of residents still living in government-provided trailers.
I don't see things changing for the better anytime soon either. It makes me laugh, though, reading people parroting these attitudes here, as it's clear they lack the self-awareness necessary to understand that they too are "other" and considered part of "the problem." |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
[ A little known fact from US history is that, until the late 1800s, "real Americans"  were making your same arguments against Irish, Italian, Chinese and Jewish immigrants. Yet somehow, America survived this "invasion"....) |
False equivalency.
1. The population of the US was much smaller in 1900.
2. Immigration was largely European.
3. We lclosed our doors from time to time.
Quite different from the tsunami of humanity many Western countries are facing. Maybe the Japanese see that and say "No thanks". |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
False equivalency. |
Stop using terms you don't understand.
| steki47 wrote: |
1. The population of the US was much smaller in 1900. |
So?
| steki47 wrote: |
2. Immigration was largely European. |
Back in the 1800s/early 1900s, Irish, Italian and Jewish immigrants weren't considered "European," but something far different and far worse. Heck, my Italian grandfather used to be called n!gger....
| steki47 wrote: |
3. We lclosed our doors from time to time. |
????
| steki47 wrote: |
Quite different from the tsunami of humanity many Western countries are facing. Maybe the Japanese see that and say "No thanks". |
Actually, no difference. Again, read up on US history--e.g., the Irish crisis. Here, let me help:
http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2010/03/17/irish-americans-racism-and-the-pursuit-of-whiteness/
http://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis
http://www.history.com/news/when-america-despised-the-irish-the-19th-centurys-refugee-crisis
You'll see that the terminology used to describe the Irish (and Italians, and Jews, and Chinese) exactly mirrors what is being used to describe the peoples involved in the latest "invasion" today. False equivalency indeed! |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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And I call bs on that Bernstein editorial. Those links I included contain actual editorials, advertisements and articles from that period. E.g., the Irish (and Italians, and Jews) were called Negroes (that's a quote) and often far worse. Again, the actual articles from the period are included--take a look yourself.
Nobody anywhere is arguing that the Irish (or Italians, Jews, Chinese, etc.) were treated as bad or worse than African Americans at the time. Indeed, Bernstein is making a classic straw man argument, substituting the actual position (that Irish, Italian, Jewish and Chinese immigrants were greeted with the same terminology and sometimes similar treatment as blacks back then and current immigrants now) with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of that argument. Again, that African Americans were historically treated far worse doesn't negate the reality of the poor treatment Irish (or Italians, Jews, Chinese, etc.) immigrants faced then...or that the peoples of this latest "invasion" are facing now. |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:34 am Post subject: |
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I stand corrected. I have just been informed via pm that there are white supremacist and/or ALT-right websites that do argue that the Irish (and Italians, and Jews, and Chinese) were initially treated exactly the same as African Americans. (They further argue that the inability of African Americans to overcome said treatment is 100% their fault...because, you know, the other "nonwhite" races overcame these obstacles.)
Bernstein is apparently responding to these websites. Bizarrely, these same conservative websites--often on the same pages--also declare the 90% white period of US history to be its heyday...of course missing the irony that this negates their argument that the Irish/Italians were thought of and treated as nonwhites (and ignores as well how census figures back then didn't count broad swaths of the populace...).
I'm going to bow out of this conversation, as we're moving too far away from a discussion of life in Japan. Good luck to all of you! |
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moviefan1987
Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:24 am Post subject: |
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I think it is interesting that this thread has spiraled into a discussion on open borders.
I am no bleeding heart 'libtard,' or diehard right winger, but I think what a number of posters here are pointing out is that Japan has a unique culture and is largely homogenous. There are some benefits to that, and anyone who has spent any amount of time here can see that, even if this society has its own problems as well.
This is not Western Europe or the USA. Political correctness, open borders, and the type of mindless immigration and refugee influxes seen elsewhere is not going to work well or be likely in this country. Most of us know that and understand why. I can imagine that immigration will be likely to increase sometime in the future, but it will not be on a scale seen elsewhere.
Japan has its benefits and it has its drawbacks. I think we can all understand that. |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| ALT-right websites |
Oh yeah, they took over the JHS contract in eastern Japan. Heard bad things about them.  |
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taikibansei
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| steki47 wrote: |
| taikibansei wrote: |
| ALT-right websites |
Oh yeah, they took over the JHS contract in eastern Japan. Heard bad things about them. |
Ha! You got me--well done! |
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steki47
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: BFE Inaka
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
| steki47 wrote: |
| taikibansei wrote: |
| ALT-right websites |
Oh yeah, they took over the JHS contract in eastern Japan. Heard bad things about them. |
Ha! You got me--well done! |
(takes bow)
Fun chatting with you! The gale warning has been lifted and now I have to actually work! |
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rxk22
Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:49 am Post subject: |
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| taikibansei wrote: |
Aren't you an immigrant?
Shhh....
The really "funny" thing is that if I were to survey his Japanese neighbors--or he my neighbors--most of them would argue just as he does, that all foreigners are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed in this country. If pressed, most (but not all) would then (hopefully) add, "But that rxk22 (or taikibansei) is okay...for a foreigner."
Japanese ideas of racial purity--and the need to maintain this purity through denying access to "outsiders" (broadly defined and often including native Japanese)--have both contributed to the current political and demographic challenges (including a deepening crisis caused by the rapidly shrinking population) and prevented Japan’s leaders from responding effectively to these challenges. When the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami struck, foreign volunteers, including myself, were among the first respondents to the disaster zone. (I lived within easy driving distance.) And then once things sort of stabilized, newspaper articles started coming out citing rumors of looting by foreigners (which even the POLICE denied happened...), and then Japanese government pressure stopped our individual efforts. Sadly, these efforts were never adequately replaced; my last trip along the coast in 2016 found a series of ghost towns, with the vast majority of residents still living in government-provided trailers.
I don't see things changing for the better anytime soon either. It makes me laugh, though, reading people parroting these attitudes here, as it's clear they lack the self-awareness necessary to understand that they too are "other" and considered part of "the problem." |
To pretend that I am an Uncle Tom is absurd. What I said about unfettered immigration, contrasts vastly with my own situation. I do not require extra social services, nor do I produce children that require more schooling/special Japanese classes.
A skilled worker moving from Belgium to Germany is in no way equivalent to an uneducated person from Somalia moving to Germany. Though we can joke, most EFL teachers here commit very little crime. Unlike migrants, who bring all kinds of social ills with them.
On the last page someone stated that the Hispanic pop of many states were unreported and that they were the majority for a good while. This is false. My family is of Mexican origin, and were living in the present US by the early 1800s. From all that I can tell, there were maybe 16,000 Mexican citizens in the former Mexican territories. Which is why they induced settlers into Texas, and then lost Texas to the US.
My family history is interesting, and has led me to learn more about early Hispanic-Anglo relations. Which is very different from the nonsense you are posting in this thread. |
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Mr. Kalgukshi
Mod Team
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 6613
Location: Need to know basis only.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Thread is now locked due to certain members posting off-topic and/or derailing comments promoting personal agendas. If you are among the "certain members", you are reading a very final warning regarding your tenure here. |
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