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What do you look for in a BA or MA degree program?
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coledavis wrote:
RTM: I think you will find that it is universities which require Applied Linguistics (certainly in Russia, can't speak for other countries).

Cole, that's interesting to hear. When you say they want an MA in AL, do you mean they want the name of the degree to say "Applied Linguistics", or they are looking for different knowledge/content (e.g., more theoretical orientation than pedagogical)?

I can say that that is not the case in university ESL programs in the US. More would prefer someone with a more pedagogical slant than theoretical, which would tend to (but not always) be TESOL rather than AL. A more theoretical orientation might be useful at PhD level.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the name, but this is probably because there is an underlying theoretical element - they do like their theory. Forget what is useful for what, as the Russians are unlikely to think like you on this. Do not get in the habit of thinking 'these are our values in the USA [/UK/Oz/etc], therefore they will be Russian values'. Russia is a very different country.

However, they will I believe also accept applied linguistics if it formed a substantive part of a first degree (although this may depend on the individual university).
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ttxor1



Joined: 04 Jan 2014
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What do you look for in a BA or MA degree program? Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Regardless of your TEFL experience...

If you're looking to get a university/college degree or are presently in a degree program or have completed your degree, which of the following factors of the program and choice of school are/were important to you and why:

    -- "Fancy Name" University for prestige, recognition in the TESOL community and with employers
    -- Specific course content (coursework)
    -- Degree title or program of study (e.g., Applied Linguistics vs. Education vs. English Literature vs. ...)
    -- Non-TEFL related field that fits my interests or future career goals
    -- None; I just need/needed a degree, any degree
    -- Convenience (location or mode of delivery)
    -- Cost
    -- Other
If you're looking into bachelors or masters degree programs, what are your reasons for doing so?
If you're currently completing your studies or have already obtained a degree, what regrets, if any, do you have about your academic choice(s)? On the other hand, what positive impact has it made?

Thank yew!



Great discussion question, nomad soul!

Fancy name – well known , etc

This was a huge influence on me. At my last job before entering a grad program, I was surrounded by senior teachers who had mostly done their MA in the UK. So immediately I was biased towards that side of the Atlantic, and was further interested by the research intensive nature of British programs. I had been out of school for about 5 years, and was eager to be a student again! I had always enjoyed writing and researching in undergrad. In retrospect, I wish I had given more thought to the fact that typically British programs don't include an element of practicum, but I balanced that with doing the CELTA towards the end of the program.

I would prefer not to name the uni I went to, but suffice it to say that it consistently ranks in the top 30 in the UK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankings_of_universities_in_the_United_Kingdom

I mentioned that I was surrounded by current students/graduates of British universities at the Kuwaiti educational institution: Their nationalities were Egyptian, Welsh, Canadian and Greek; they had done/were doing masters degrees in the UK and could give me a good sense of the top/well respected/well known programs there. They had 5-20 years experience teaching in IEPs and foundation/prep year programs in the US, UK and Middle East (Kuwait, Saudi, Palestine, Egypt, Bahrain). My Welsh colleague was particularly influential, as she became, and still is, the Head of Department. She was working part time on her doctorate. Three other American colleagues had done their TESL grad studies in the US and another American co-worker who was the next youngest employee after me was planning to do, and has since completed her MA in TESOL in the UK. A Jordanian colleague had done her MA in English Lit and Language in Kuwait, two other American teachers and a Canadian had not done an MA, but had 7-10 years TESL experience. An Iranian born British national had a few years experience teaching in Iran and had an unrelated MA. A Serbian teacher had 5 -10 years experience Kuwait, no MA. I remember us laughing at the idea of cuisenaire rods. I was later struck when a uni tutor and CELTA tutor asked us about them, and informed me about their (along with color coded pronunciation and vocabulary word charts, a pointer and reading writing activities) usefulness in one to one or class teaching situations with kinesthetic learners in self discovery, problem solving methods which follow Caleb Gattegno's “silent way” educational philosophy (Richards and Rodgers 2001:86).The fact that our foundation program used a textbook authored by a professor at a British uni also impacted my program selection decision.

A particularly memorable moment was when the Canadian colleague, who was doing a blended version of an UK MA TESOL course, told me that one of the American colleagues (who, at the time, was HOD) had asked to borrow one of his MA course texts. The Canadian colleague soon after was informed by the American HOD that she wanted to fire him, but she still asked to borrow his book! I think he politely declined the lend request then.

The Greek colleague was/is a good friend, and at the time, was doing an online version of a British uni's MA TESOL. She had 20+ years of teaching in Greece, and said over lunch at a nearby Thai restaurant once that one regret she had was not doing the MA sooner. She administered Elaine Horwitz's Beliefs About Language Learning Inventory (BALLI) to our students for her dissertation, the results of which she graciously allowed me to cite for one of my term assignments. I realized later, while on my uni's leafy campus, the value of having a blend of theoretical knowledge and practical (research and teaching) skills. I asked a few colleagues and tutors about online learning versus classroom learning, and one said that he thought that having face to face access to tutors, other like minded students and world respected research libraries is not to be overlooked. An experienced instructor asserted that theory is something to draw on, and offers principled frameworks for practical skills. I suppose the question might become when to acquire/learn the formal discourse community accepted knowledge, and when to get the more nuts and bolts skills. This probably depends on what kind of learner you are, or where life takes you, and if you prefer to get the theory first and then use it in the classroom, or to get your practical knowledge first, and reflect upon it later in a graduate program. I would love to hear others chime in on this. My Greek's colleague's BALLI experiment seems to illustrate the latter career track. However, being able to apply the theory (and to be able to correctly apply the right theories with little face to face help from tutors) to real students in a multilingual setting is easier to do to the standards of academics if one has 20+ years of experience.

To digress a bit, though, while the formal discipline of TESOL has been around for awhile (a common starting point is 1948 with the publication of the inaugural Language Learning: A Journal of Applied Linguistics [Grabe 2002: 3])I think the demand for instructors with this advanced degree is relatively recent (http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=103209&highlight=) and thus the degree's visibility and marketability has increased. I think that some universities' online programs are more popular (in terms of numbers of students) than the bricks and mortar versions. To jump in on the TESOL versus Applied Linguistics term debate, I asked a tutor about this. She said that TESOL is more methodologically focused. AP, an outgrowth of formal linguistics, “addresses real world language based problems. While the focus on language teaching remains central to the discipline, it takes into its domain the growing subfields of language assessment, SLA, literacy, multilingualism, language minority rights, language planning and policy, and teacher training” (Grabe 2002: 4). So maybe we can agree that AP is an umbrella term under which TESOL rests...?

Specific course content

This was a biggie for me. One of the biggest difficulties for me over the course of my pre – certification experience was figuring out how to use the commercially published materials, which exercises to use when and with which students, and why, etc. The Materials Evaluation and Design elective I took, as well as the CELTA, helped me, to quote a CELTA tutor “lift the exercises off of the page.” A beloved and very influential uni tutor, in her Learning to Train (teacher training) elective module, when asked about some of the practical strategies, banged her fist on the table and barked: “This course isn't about the tricks! This course is about deep thinking!” A CELTA tutor parenthetically suggested to me that all the “theory stuff” is more applicable to the DELTA/Dip and I had difficulty transitioning from a theoretically, academically oriented course to professional skills training. A CELTA tutor informed me that they don't expect such extensive citations in their assignments.


Degree title or program of study

This didn't factor into my program selection at all.

Mode of delivery

This partially draws on above's comments about selecting a research heavy course versus one with a practical element. I might note that it has been commented elsewhere on the forums about the accessibility of tutors at major tier 1 research institutions which put pressure on tutors/professors to publish, present at conferences, etc. Thats the tradeoff for having a low teaching load. It is true that one needs to be more self motivated and be able to "get on with it" oneself a bit more. I was once told by a beloved uni tutor to not to "bother busy professionals with your papers!" She was referring to me reaching out to professionals in the field to comment on my proposed research instrument . So I knew that I was fairly self motivated, and didn't mind long hours alone in the library. Also, I was aware that the practical element of a US based degree can count towards state certification. I reasoned it this way: I could spend one year getting all the theory and a bit of the practical, and get back into the job market faster than someone doing a two year MA in the states. Remember that state certification only is required for teaching in K-12 contexts, and that not having a state cert doesn't shut the door to you for uni/community college teaching positions. I knew that I didn't want to teach in K-12 in the states, so went with the theory heavy UK MA with a sprinkling of the practical with the CELTA (and my 4 years EFL experience in Korea and Kuwait). But if you need/prefer more contact hours with professors, a chance to be a TA, an opportunity to knock out a state certification/endorsement, the US MA might suit you more. I should note that my uni did give us the opportunity to teach an informal class to some of the uni's pre-sessional international students, but it fell through due to, among many things, differing views on teaching and learning, different personalities, little supervision by more experienced tutors and low/unpredictable attendance both by students and teachers.

None – I just needed a degree any degree

The competitive nature of the job market, both internationally and at home, was stressing me out. I was well aware that jobs with better pay and bennies require an advanced degree. A good friend of mine just finished his JD, but has found the same (perhaps more so) super competitive job market in his field and has since returned to teaching EFL in Korea. So, yes, I knew I needed to strengthen my CV, but was attuned to what fields are “hot” and in demand, and in which countries, an advanced degree would help my application to stand out in the overflowing email inboxes of HR administrators and hiring/selection committees.

ttxor1

Richards, J. and Rodgers, T. (2001) "The Silent Way" in Approaches and Methods in Language Teaching Second Edition. CUP.

Grabe, W. (2002) "Applied Linguistics: An Emerging Discipline for the Twenty-first Century" in The Oxford Handbook of Applied Linguistics by Robert B. Kaplan (Ed), OUP.
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lucifer911



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am completing my BA but I would like to know the importance of a degree title in helping you secure a teaching contract. Specifically on your BA parchment does it indicate which major you have completed? or will they know your major / minors by looking at your academic transcript?

and when you apply for your job do you send a copy of your academic transcript to your employer? if so, is it also important to maintain high grades in each of your subjects to help secure a job? or do employers mainly look for CELTA qualification + teaching experience and briefly check to see whether you have a degree instead of assessing your degree in finer detail?

I have a science background at university and I can tell you high grades in science subjects are very important in securing employment. Graduates of law should have good grades in their subjects to increase their chances of employment with a good law firm - I know law firms even ask candidates for their GPAs (grade point average)
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Lucifer. While the assessment points/grade you mention are important in specific careers and often in businesses, I do not think they contribute much relating to teaching English as a second/foreign language.

We also need to be clear about what you are applying for.

As you mention CELTA, let's start with ordinary teaching at a language school. Any degree will do, followed by the CELTA/Trinity (the most widely recognised TEFL certificates). In a competition between candidates, perhaps more 'literate' degrees may be preferred (not that I'm calling scientists illiterate!), with ones containing English per se with a greater edge. But on the whole, employers in language schools are not too bothered about your subject or your grade (I suppose spectacularly good or bad might have some effect).

Universities: Now I am limiting this to the countries I know quite well (Russia and Belarus). To teach at universities, either you need a first degree with an applied linguistics element or you need to take MA Applied Linguistics. For Russia and Belarus, you definitely need this title for your MA, not a teaching one. Other countries - I don't know, but I recommend research.
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lucifer911



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for your input

Before I undertake an MA I think it would be best to secure a teaching contract with just a BA + Celta to see how I enjoy teaching in a foreign country. If I know it is definately a long term career which I know I'll enjoy then I'll look at the MA Linguistics program.

Normally I achieve credit passes in my subjects and the occasional distinction. Some of my science colleagues have went on to become doctors and they were very obsessed with getting distinctions / high distinctions in all their subjects..

I will have to PM you for more advice regarding Russia / Belarus. I happen to be learning russian as my second language. Talk to you soon.

coledavis wrote:
Hello Lucifer. While the assessment points/grade you mention are important in specific careers and often in businesses, I do not think they contribute much relating to teaching English as a second/foreign language.

We also need to be clear about what you are applying for.

As you mention CELTA, let's start with ordinary teaching at a language school. Any degree will do, followed by the CELTA/Trinity (the most widely recognised TEFL certificates). In a competition between candidates, perhaps more 'literate' degrees may be preferred (not that I'm calling scientists illiterate!), with ones containing English per se with a greater edge. But on the whole, employers in language schools are not too bothered about your subject or your grade (I suppose spectacularly good or bad might have some effect).

Universities: Now I am limiting this to the countries I know quite well (Russia and Belarus). To teach at universities, either you need a first degree with an applied linguistics element or you need to take MA Applied Linguistics. For Russia and Belarus, you definitely need this title for your MA, not a teaching one. Other countries - I don't know, but I recommend research.
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coledavis



Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.M. fine. Will do my best. But yes, I think the cheaper and shorter option of getting your CELTA/Trinity and some experience at a language school would be a good idea before deciding on your Masters. Also, do some reading about applied linguistics, as there are two possibilities that I can see: You might not like teaching or you might find applied linguistics a bore (the subject bores me to tears but that's of course a matter of personal taste).


Another point: If you do the CELTA/Trinity then teach option, you may find that during your initial drudge year, you may (especially in Moscow) make contacts who are interested in the combination of a science background, Russian and your native tongue. Then you may well be talking about a lot more money than in teaching (depending on your values).

Yet another point: if teaching isn't for you, you might want to consider a Masters in another subject (a different science, perhaps) which could take you into other pastures.

Consider a career choice test. A free one is at


www.careersteer.org
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natsume



Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The linguistics MA program I am looking at for fall 2015 includes a "TESOL/Applied Linguistics" focus (the other two being general and computational linguistics).

The graduate bulletin states "All students who complete the required program will receive a Master of Arts degree in linguistics. If requested, the department will provide a letter designating a student’s specialization for purposes of employment or application for further study."

I guess this kind of promises to cover both the AL and TESOL focus in one degree.

Curious if anybody has any thoughts on this. (It is San Diego State University.)
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

natsume wrote:
The graduate bulletin states "All students who complete the required program will receive a Master of Arts degree in linguistics. If requested, the department will provide a letter designating a student’s specialization for purposes of employment or application for further study."

I guess this kind of promises to cover both the AL and TESOL focus in one degree.

Curious if anybody has any thoughts on this. (It is San Diego State University.)

It's unclear exactly what your question is, but generally, a program's course content/coursework is more important than the degree title.
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Shroob



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

natsume wrote:
The linguistics MA program I am looking at for fall 2015 includes a "TESOL/Applied Linguistics" focus (the other two being general and computational linguistics).

The graduate bulletin states "All students who complete the required program will receive a Master of Arts degree in linguistics. If requested, the department will provide a letter designating a student’s specialization for purposes of employment or application for further study."

I guess this kind of promises to cover both the AL and TESOL focus in one degree.

Curious if anybody has any thoughts on this. (It is San Diego State University.)


My current MA course's title is 'MA in Applied Linguistics with TESOL'. The modules I chose were pretty much 50/50. In the first semester there were 4 core modules which were: Introduction to SLA, English Grammar, Introduction to Linguistics, and Teaching Methodology. The second semester had about 10 choices, which a leaning towards applied linguistics.
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nomad soul



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumping this thread.
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lion101



Joined: 29 Mar 2016
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am definitely looking at cost, location, and title. I live in the bay area and there are many good universities around me and am choosing an ma based on these factors.
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suphanburi



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lion101 wrote:
I am definitely looking at cost, location, and title. I live in the bay area and there are many good universities around me and am choosing an ma based on these factors.


Check out San Jose. Say hi to Dr. Hubener (dept of linguistics) if you run into him. http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/catalog/departments/LING.html

.
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lion101



Joined: 29 Mar 2016
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually did check San Jose and am trying to choose between San Jose state, cal state east bay, or university of San Francisco. Did you go to San Jose state?


suphanburi wrote:
lion101 wrote:
I am definitely looking at cost, location, and title. I live in the bay area and there are many good universities around me and am choosing an ma based on these factors.


Check out San Jose. Say hi to Dr. Hubener (dept of linguistics) if you run into him. http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/catalog/departments/LING.html

.
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nomad soul



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given how technology is being used for learning in various contexts, I suggest looking for a degree program that includes the basics of eLearning or ed tech.
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