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Z visa for Africans
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:50 am    Post subject: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 141
Location: DongBei

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

dakelei wrote:
I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?

If he says he did it then maybe he did. A better question is does anyone really care.
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do because I want to know if he's full of, um, stuff.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4723
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

Blistering Zanazilz wrote:
dakelei wrote:
I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?

If he says he did it then maybe he did. A better question is does anyone really care.


Sorry but the the twists and turns of the Z visa system are vital info for people trying to get a start in China.
It's not for you to delineate the scope of the visa discussion.
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 141
Location: DongBei

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
Blistering Zanazilz wrote:
dakelei wrote:
I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?

If he says he did it then maybe he did. A better question is does anyone really care.


Sorry but the the twists and turns of the Z visa system are vital info for people trying to get a start in China.
It's not for you to delineate the scope of the visa discussion.

Take it easy old timer, I'm not trying to "delineate" anything. Laughing Whether or not an agent can help Africans get visas seems irrelevant to whether or not not he can help native speakers wishing to work as teachers get them. In any case, how is anyone supposed to know what this anonymous agent is capable of?
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4723
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

dakelei wrote:
I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?


I think the OP sets out the question pretty well.
My initial reaction is that the agent is talking BS but then we don't know the relevance of this to the OP who may be African.
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 141
Location: DongBei

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: Z visa for Africans Reply with quote

Non Sequitur wrote:
dakelei wrote:
I'm dealing with an agent in China who swears he has procured a Z visa for several of his African clients. I find this a bit difficult to believe. Am I being too cynical?


I think the OP sets out the question pretty well.
My initial reaction is that the agent is talking BS but then we don't know the relevance of this to the OP who may be African.

OK he's probably African, and in that case the question makes sense. maybe this agent can help. But again, who knows.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4723
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep
Best
NS
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not African. It has always been my understanding that only "native speakers" can get a Z visa. (In some instances that includes South Africa.) This particular agent was not referring to South Africans and my BS detector went off. Like just about everyone else I've dealt with on Z visa issues I can't quite tell if he can be trusted. That's why I asked. Apologies to all if I wasn't specific enough.
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Elicit



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is possible for any nationality to get an English teaching Z visa and new FEC card.

If one was to read the guidelines for applicants wishing to obtain the latest FEC, a loophole is apparent. Don’t have the paperwork to post here, but I have read the related application notes along with a non native speaker friend who successfully landed a FEC. Basically, our interpretation was that passport holders from the listed countries are preferred and employers are encouraged strongly, advised, recommended etc. to recruit them.

However, if the role cannot be filled by a preferred candidate for a number of reasons then anyone is fair game. Reasons for hiring non natives in this personal case were lack of qualified native speakers to take up the position. Perhaps another may be location, although that’s just a guess. It boils down to if the school/recruiter wants to get into interpretation of the application guidelines with the issuing authorities and if they are prepared to claim there was no other preferred candidate available.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4723
Location: China

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly.
Do schools go outside the preferred nationality list or do students miss out?
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jimpellow



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 892

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elicit wrote:
It is possible for any nationality to get an English teaching Z visa and new FEC card.

If one was to read the guidelines for applicants wishing to obtain the latest FEC, a loophole is apparent. Don’t have the paperwork to post here, but I have read the related application notes along with a non native speaker friend who successfully landed a FEC. Basically, our interpretation was that passport holders from the listed countries are preferred and employers are encouraged strongly, advised, recommended etc. to recruit them.

However, if the role cannot be filled by a preferred candidate for a number of reasons then anyone is fair game. Reasons for hiring non natives in this personal case were lack of qualified native speakers to take up the position. Perhaps another may be location, although that’s just a guess. It boils down to if the school/recruiter wants to get into interpretation of the application guidelines with the issuing authorities and if they are prepared to claim there was no other preferred candidate available.


Yes, I have seen this loophole mentioned too. I find it ironic how they have made the native speaking teachers go through so much BS to get the FEC that they must now resort to non-native speaking teachers to lessen the increasing shortage.

I would bet that depending on provence and guan xi, you will see some pretty well qualified non-native speaking teachers in some schools, and some schools that are able to bribe-coax the authorities into granting FECs to some rather interesting folk.

Of course, the more non-native speaking teachers which are brought in through this loophole, the more it will have a depressing effect on overall wages. This in turn will make more native-speaking teachers wonder if the onerous process is worth it.
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dakelei



Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 351
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm right now questioning whether the process is worth it. I have already spent 11 years in China but I left in 2014, vowing, as many of us do, never to return. I'm a tad sheepish to even admit I'm thinking of returning but a combination of factors is pushing me in that direction. What is happening, in my opinion, is China, as it typically does, is overreacting. I completely understand them wanting to make sure folks have valid diplomas but the "authentication" process is bordering on the absurd. Doing it oneself takes several trips to several offices, sometimes in different states. Agents will help but it's $200 a pop. Then you need to do the same thing for the criminal check, for an additional $200. Then one often needs to use an agent to get the visa itself once everything else is ready. That can easily cost a few hundred more bucks. And of course one might need to lay out money for the medical check, which is really annoying because the Chinese government often doesn't "accept" it anyway. Along with the money is also the time factor. Since you can never be completely sure when everything will be completed booking a flight becomes a crap shoot and then you need to quit your job here in the USA and tie everything up. You might end up quitting your job too soon and be stuck with no income while waiting for everything to process. It's pretty crazy. Does China even really WANT foreign teachers? I'm beginning to believe no.
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Non Sequitur



Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4723
Location: China

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1
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Kalkstein



Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's absolutely a requirement now to have a passport for one of those countries. Our FAO was given the documentation directly from the burea and it dictates we can't hire non-natives to teach English under any circumstances to teach English.

The answer to the original question is difficult to answer because the fact remains he could have procured the visas illegally or he might be lying. The only way to know is to talk to the African people who attained visas for. It's also impossible to know when he got those visas and the rules change every year. This was easy years ago, now it's nearly impossible (at least in my province).

jimpellow wrote:

Of course, the more non-native speaking teachers which are brought in through this loophole, the more it will have a depressing effect on overall wages. This in turn will make more native-speaking teachers wonder if the onerous process is worth it.


Yeah my feeling is that it's getting more rigid though, not less. I know about 10 schools in my city alone, not one of them hires non-natives anymore and some of them have been without teachers for over a year due to this rule. Surely they would have hired if this loophole was available to them?
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