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KFUPM going native?
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chrisp728



Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: KFUPM going native? Reply with quote

Yikes - I was just idly perusing the KFUPM job ads and it appeared that some of the English teaching positions are now "Saudi applicants only". A former colleague of mine worked there and reckoned it was the best TEFL job in the country (spousal sponsorship; free accom on campus and use of all facilities; good students; Bahrain half an hour away). I had vaguely wondered about applying at some point in the dim and distant fullness of time. Now it looks like it's being Saudised. Anyone got any reports from the battlefield?
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11381
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saudization has been promoted for years and shouldn't worry you unless you find working alongside Saudi peers off putting.

KFUPM still recruits foreigners. Per a current ad on the Café's job board for the 2018-2019 academic year:

Quote:
Essential Requirements:
• Male
• Place of Birth: the US, Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia or New Zealand.
• Native speakers of English
• Graduate of an Anglophone university
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15323

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many Saudi nationals who could do the job of teaching English at KFUPM.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11510
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going in the same direction most of north and west Europe has already travelled, in this respect. Perfectly reasonable.
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chrisp728



Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've no doubt that many Saudis can do the job perfectly well, and that it's reasonable for them to do so. However, from the point of view of what I assume to be the majority of the users of this forum - native speakers from Anglophone countries looking to get a job in KSA - it's not a particularly welcome development. Anyone at KFUPM now who can tell us which way the wind is blowing?

On a slightly related note, if someone is already working in Saudi with an iqama and their employer is happy for them to leave and provides a No Objection Letter, and this person conducts an interview with and is offered a job by another Saudi employer, is it possible for them to head directly over to the new job and transfer their iqama to new employer (assuming it's for the same job, ie English teacher)?

Or is it necessary to do the Final Exit, return to home country, do all the degree attestation/medical/etc rigmarole again to get another work visa, then return to Saudi and get a new iqama?

Many thanks for all info on any of the above.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11381
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrisp728 wrote:
If someone is already working in Saudi with an iqama and their employer is happy for them to leave and provides a No Objection Letter, and this person conducts an interview with and is offered a job by another Saudi employer, is it possible for them to head directly over to the new job and transfer their iqama to new employer (assuming it's for the same job, ie English teacher)?

Or is it necessary to do the Final Exit, return to home country, do all the degree attestation/medical/etc rigmarole again to get another work visa, then return to Saudi and get a new iqama?

That's a question for the prospective employer -- during your interview. There are other variables at play.
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chrisp728



Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
chrisp728 wrote:
If someone is already working in Saudi with an iqama and their employer is happy for them to leave and provides a No Objection Letter, and this person conducts an interview with and is offered a job by another Saudi employer, is it possible for them to head directly over to the new job and transfer their iqama to new employer (assuming it's for the same job, ie English teacher)?

Or is it necessary to do the Final Exit, return to home country, do all the degree attestation/medical/etc rigmarole again to get another work visa, then return to Saudi and get a new iqama?

That's a question for the prospective employer -- during your interview. There are other variables at play.


Such as?
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sicklyman



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 922

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the scenario you are describing does happen but it's pretty much at the discretion of the one who plans to employ you because it's they that have to do the admin. The old employer should provide the NOC and the exit visa anyway, and they'll probably be happy not to have to bother with the latter if the new employer is happy to just do the iqama transfer. Iqama transfers don't require a medical either and any attestation will be done by the new company, not the govt.

BTW, it doesn't have to be for the same job at all since the iqama will be cancelled and reissued and a new job title can be applied at that point.
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Lord T



Joined: 07 Jul 2015
Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KFUPM is still hiring native speakers; and has just offered contract extensions to some teachers in their mid to late sixties. Also, teachers are allowed to sit down during the lesson, unlike in many colleges in Saudi.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15323

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KFUPM has also not renewed some contracts of over-60s. Student evaluations play an important part. So if you are ageing and your students think you are not an effective teacher, you may be on the way out.

"Have a good relationship with your students" is Rule Number One. That doe NOT mean being soft on them or letting them do what they want. My experience at KFUPM and elsewhere in the Arab World was simply this. If students see you are trying to help them learn and succeed they will be supportive.

The low level of education allowance now on offer means that those with school-age children choose to move on., or not take up the contract. Those who are happy vto send their children to schools with a Muslim orientation now predominate among the teaching staff with children.

I can still say that in a lifetime of teaching in three continents, including 17 with different employers in KSA, KFUPM was the best living and working environment I experienced.

I had medical problems when I was working there. I had by-pass surgery and i was treated with humanity and respect. i still remember Abdulrahman Al-Kathlan who authorised my sick leave when I was having surgery in Dhahran.
I salute him and his colleagues who made KFUPM such a good place to be.
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leggeymountbatten



Joined: 11 Mar 2016
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott 47 - I know that you are a good Kfupm solider and supporter, and I note that you were treated compassionately over your medical issues while there, but things do change. I say that with the greatest of respect.

There have been a lot of cuts and changes at Kfupm, and the attitude is not the same. As far as many can see, it is now run much like a private sector establishment, with none of the benefits.

One doesn't want to be unkind, but it needs new blood and new direction.

Your comment on the importance of student evaluations are interesting.

They are indeed important. Two points - 1. some teachers tend to over indulge their students because they are aware of the power they have 2. many of the students have a child like mentality. Nothing new there, this is Saudi.

However, a 12 year old child (mentality) writing an evaluation which will determine the future of a teacher, maybe not be the best way to ensure good professional standards in an institution.

Periodic classroom peer/management observation maybe a better remedy.

Leggey
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15323

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am tempted to say "Apres moi, le deluge". I left KSA in 2011 and left the main campus of KFUPM in 2009 to go to the green fields (??) of Hafr Al Batin Community College. I am now waiting for Chronic Kidney Disease and other ailments to speed me on to Valhalla. I do not really care very much. I will leave what happens to KFUPM to the Beneficent One.

Go Ye all in the Path of the One Who Sees All.


Last edited by scot47 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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In the heat of the moment



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Africa

PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiral78 wrote:
Going in the same direction most of north and west Europe has already travelled, in this respect. Perfectly reasonable.


Not forgetting Japan and Korea, where TEFL jobs are becoming thinner on the ground and less attractive. I was in Korea when the government decided to get rid of (almost) all the NETs in high schools in Seoul, a decision which was around the same time foreigners' misbehaviour in Seoul - especially Itaewon - was all over the media.

When Saudi English teachers are recognised as having the skills, ability, knowledge and temperament to take over my role, I'll gladly step aside, although I think I'll have jumped ship before that time comes.
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siologen



Joined: 25 Oct 2016
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: re: indeed! Reply with quote

Quote:
although I think I'll have jumped ship before that time comes.


I suppose that is what they are counting on, given the 5 percent VAT this year.
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In the heat of the moment



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 376
Location: Africa

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: re: indeed! Reply with quote

siologen wrote:
I suppose that is what they are counting on, given the 5 percent VAT this year.

The minimum in Europe is 15%, 17% in China, 20% in the UK, and the standard rate in the OECD was 19.2% as of 1 January 2016. 5% is nowt.
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