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Is it true that a public school can be late with salaries?
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rioux



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alonzo9772 wrote:
No, absolutely not. We aren't there to change their lives. We're just there to teach English. Stop making it up in your mind that you are superior to them and need to correct their behaviors.


You made a false dichotomy. By teaching English we are changing their lives. Furthermore, language is not so easily separated from culture.
Stop making it up in your mind that you are superior to those who want to correct their behaviors.
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nimadecaomei



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late pay is not acceptable in "their" culture. Late pay is late pay and bad. Look at all the construction workers who protest not being paid. People are very sympathetic to them as it is not right.

That said, I usually get paid early, and never in cash. If pay was late I would ask, but not be angry as it is probably just a mix up. If it was a regular thing I probably would change that attitude.
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 141
Location: DongBei

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rioux wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
No, absolutely not. We aren't there to change their lives. We're just there to teach English. Stop making it up in your mind that you are superior to them and need to correct their behaviors.


You made a false dichotomy. By teaching English we are changing their lives. Furthermore, language is not so easily separated from culture.
Stop making it up in your mind that you are superior to those who want to correct their behaviors.

Now we're here to "correct their behaviors?" Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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rioux



Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blistering Zanazilz wrote:
Now we're here to "correct their behaviors?" Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Yes, if the situation calls for it.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=114735&highlight=jiaxing

His behavior was "corrected."
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Elicit



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alonzo9772 wrote:
Elicit wrote:
For me personally, if the salary is not in the bank on pay day then I am not in the classroom the following day/week, but job hunting instead.


That's kind of extreme. I would immediately assume that they have a valid reason: the payroll lady caught the flu, the boss forgot to add my bank information to the payroll, or the computers are broken. I would just give them a week to sort it out. I understand how disorganized Chinese life is.


There is no valid reason in this day and age, even here, that salaries are not paid as specified in an employment contract. By accepting late payment, one is only helping to ensure the next poor foreign teacher gets similar treatment.
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getbehindthemule



Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 664
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elicit wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
Elicit wrote:
For me personally, if the salary is not in the bank on pay day then I am not in the classroom the following day/week, but job hunting instead.


That's kind of extreme. I would immediately assume that they have a valid reason: the payroll lady caught the flu, the boss forgot to add my bank information to the payroll, or the computers are broken. I would just give them a week to sort it out. I understand how disorganized Chinese life is.


There is no valid reason in this day and age, even here, that salaries are not paid as specified in an employment contract. By accepting late payment, one is only helping to ensure the next poor foreign teacher gets similar treatment.



I get your point, but not turning up the next day is a bit over the top! Then again, I've been lucky in the fact that my salary has never been late in over 4 years working in China.
Also, many contacts don't specify an exact date of payment I'd imagine. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't anyway.
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kev20



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think late payment is a breach of the contract. If they offer a reason and assure it will be in the account the next working day then I don't think there's any justification for being so dramatic.

If not turning up for work is a first response to not getting paid on time, then that comes across as someone just out of school, on their first job, having a massive tantrum.

I've seen this happen with some of my colleagues. They will actually start complaining at lunch time on pay day if they didn't get paid. The company will apologize and say it will be sent out later in the day. If someone messed up and salary is not in accounts by end of day then come the inevitable, hysterical threats of strike action.

Also the idea that someone can not turn up for work because of late payment, find another job in the meantime and expect the smooth transfer of work permits and all red tape to be achieved is laughable, unless you're looking for jobs in another country.
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LarssonCrew



Joined: 06 Jun 2009
Posts: 1308

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Kev, my parents both worked in the UK their entire lives. How many times was pay not paid into their bank account on the last day of the month at midnight? Zero.

My grandad had a pay day in cash and told me they would go at lunch time and pick up their salary in an envelope. That's 60 year ago, and it is still apparently more efficient than Chinese companies.

Why should companies not pay? Explain. You say 'if someone makes a mistake and salaries don't get paid', well how about hiring efficient people OR setting up an automatic transfer of the salary. What if I do not turn up the day after I don't get paid and say it was a 'mistake'. Do I still get paid for that day?
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kev20



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LarssonCrew wrote:
But Kev, my parents both worked in the UK their entire lives. How many times was pay not paid into their bank account on the last day of the month at midnight? Zero.

My grandad had a pay day in cash and told me they would go at lunch time and pick up their salary in an envelope. That's 60 year ago, and it is still apparently more efficient than Chinese companies.

Why should companies not pay? Explain. You say 'if someone makes a mistake and salaries don't get paid', well how about hiring efficient people OR setting up an automatic transfer of the salary. What if I do not turn up the day after I don't get paid and say it was a 'mistake'. Do I still get paid for that day?


In the past I've been told

1) that they misjudged the amount of time necessary to process all payments due to an increase in the number of teachers

2) that they are a new company and misjudged the amount of time it takes, or amount of staff needed in Finance

3) that they have transferred money on their end but the bank messed up

Of course whatever excuse they make could be nonsense and if I was in a training center I would be worried but I've never heard of anyone not being paid in public school. If you don't turn up for work because of late payment, you will lose out financially and you will lose the respect of your school. There will be no benefit to you whatsoever.
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nimadecaomei



Joined: 22 Sep 2016
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of us with in country experience can appreciate the difficulties with banking. I cannot recall ever being paid late, but a day or two would not be the end of the world. Most of the time I am paid early, which can also be annoying.
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getbehindthemule



Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 664
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nimadecaomei wrote:
I think all of us with in country experience can appreciate the difficulties with banking. I cannot recall ever being paid late, but a day or two would not be the end of the world. Most of the time I am paid early, which can also be annoying.


Same, I've been paid a day or two early on numerous occasions, but I certainly don't find that annoying! It cheers me right up Laughing
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Elicit



Joined: 12 May 2010
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

“lose the respect of the school”

If the school has not paid as stated then the school should have lost the respect of the employee.

All of my contracts and/or terms and conditions documents have stated salary pay dates. If a teacher is willing to sign a work contract not knowing when they will be paid, it’s fair game for the employer.

Luckily, like the poster before (nima) I get paid in full and on time and that is thanks to being with a decent employer and perhaps even partly due to previous teachers having been unwilling to be treated like fools.
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alonzo9772



Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

getbehindthemule wrote:
Elicit wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
Elicit wrote:
For me personally, if the salary is not in the bank on pay day then I am not in the classroom the following day/week, but job hunting instead.


That's kind of extreme. I would immediately assume that they have a valid reason: the payroll lady caught the flu, the boss forgot to add my bank information to the payroll, or the computers are broken. I would just give them a week to sort it out. I understand how disorganized Chinese life is.


There is no valid reason in this day and age, even here, that salaries are not paid as specified in an employment contract. By accepting late payment, one is only helping to ensure the next poor foreign teacher gets similar treatment.



I get your point, but not turning up the next day is a bit over the top! Then again, I've been lucky in the fact that my salary has never been late in over 4 years working in China.
Also, many contacts don't specify an exact date of payment I'd imagine. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't anyway.


Hold on, you don't specify salary dates in your contracts? Of course the school would be late then. Why should they not exploit that? I always amend a really fancy looking table of salary pay dates with my contracts. There is no ambiguity or things left up to interpretation.
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Blistering Zanazilz



Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 141
Location: DongBei

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alonzo9772 wrote:
getbehindthemule wrote:
Elicit wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
Elicit wrote:
For me personally, if the salary is not in the bank on pay day then I am not in the classroom the following day/week, but job hunting instead.


That's kind of extreme. I would immediately assume that they have a valid reason: the payroll lady caught the flu, the boss forgot to add my bank information to the payroll, or the computers are broken. I would just give them a week to sort it out. I understand how disorganized Chinese life is.


There is no valid reason in this day and age, even here, that salaries are not paid as specified in an employment contract. By accepting late payment, one is only helping to ensure the next poor foreign teacher gets similar treatment.



I get your point, but not turning up the next day is a bit over the top! Then again, I've been lucky in the fact that my salary has never been late in over 4 years working in China.
Also, many contacts don't specify an exact date of payment I'd imagine. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't anyway.


Hold on, you don't specify salary dates in your contracts? Of course the school would be late then. Why should they not exploit that?

Because not every employer screws people over? Obviously you missed the part where he wrote "my salary has never been late in over 4 years." Apparently he's working for a decent employer, and if not having specified dates in his contract works for him then great. My contract has a pay date on it, but I'd be confident of being paid at the same time each month without it.


Last edited by Blistering Zanazilz on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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alonzo9772



Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blistering Zanazilz wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
getbehindthemule wrote:
Elicit wrote:
alonzo9772 wrote:
Elicit wrote:
For me personally, if the salary is not in the bank on pay day then I am not in the classroom the following day/week, but job hunting instead.


That's kind of extreme. I would immediately assume that they have a valid reason: the payroll lady caught the flu, the boss forgot to add my bank information to the payroll, or the computers are broken. I would just give them a week to sort it out. I understand how disorganized Chinese life is.


There is no valid reason in this day and age, even here, that salaries are not paid as specified in an employment contract. By accepting late payment, one is only helping to ensure the next poor foreign teacher gets similar treatment.



I get your point, but not turning up the next day is a bit over the top! Then again, I've been lucky in the fact that my salary has never been late in over 4 years working in China.
Also, many contacts don't specify an exact date of payment I'd imagine. I'm pretty sure mine doesn't anyway.


Hold on, you don't specify salary dates in your contracts? Of course the school would be late then. Why should they not exploit that? I always amend a really fancy looking table of salary pay dates with my contracts. There is no ambiguity or things left up to interpretation.

Obviously you missed the part where he wrote "my salary has never been late in over 4 years." Apparently he's working for a decent employer, and if not having specified dates in his contract works for him then great.


I would call that a 4-year good luck streak.
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