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Why English teachers in Japan feel like frauds and what to d
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yurii,

About those American teachers https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43623216

It’s not always a question of teacher competence, but economic and political conditions that result in teachers leaving. Oklahoma has the lowest teacher salary in the U.S.
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taikibansei



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Kzjohn and Tokyoliz. I've met plenty of Japanese with excellent English ability, including a number of my students each year. Furthermore, the children of most kokusai kekkon families I've met seem bilingual to me--perhaps I just am hanging out in the wrong (right) place(s)?

Regarding eikaiwa and ALT positions, neither of these were originally intended to be teaching positions in the strictest sense. Eikaiwa schools were supposed to supply "駅前留学" opportunities. I.e., one could go down to the school next to the train station and for one hour talk in "English" to a fresh foreigner--pretending the while that one was living and studying overseas. And after that hour, you would go outside back to home...in Japan. ALT positions were similarly intended to "increase mutual understanding between the people of Japan and the people of other nations, to promote internationalisation in Japan's local communities by helping to improve foreign language education, and to develop international exchange at the community level." I.e., a lot about creating international understanding--whatever that means in this context--but not much about teaching.

That many foreigners do teach--often wonderfully--in these positions is undeniable. And that many of the best foreign teachers feel wasted in these positions is also too often true. The educational system here has never been about giving foreigners fair opportunities to teach, which is frankly both frustrating and sad. That said, a large number of students do learn English to a high level of mastery, which suggests that the system does work to an extent--sufficient at least to meet Japan's current level of demand. (Yeah, government/businesses still periodically complain about poor English skills, and yet many of my best English-speaking graduates can't find jobs related to English...too many applicants.)
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fluffytwo



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's that, teaching (or if you prefer, classroom-based learning), you say? Surprised Razz Eikaiwa may have been originally intended (and indeed may still be) for knee-deep dips of "immersion", but the clientele hasn't on average been doing a very good job of teaching itself, has it. For most it seems to be Natsuki-level (of Abroad in Japan fame) hobby~escape fantasy at best. I'll tell you though if and when Hiroyuki Sanada-level walks in for some reason (took a wrong turn, I'd expect). Same thing with JET etc (at JHS level upwards, at least), except that really was or is doomed from the start due to the age range and limited motivation of the students, and too many cooks.

That is quite different from other contexts (reasonably progressive private high schools, unis etc), and nobody is saying there aren't any reasonably fluent Japanese speakers of English, or indeed halfway-decent foreign English teachers here (i.e. those who can suggest if not actually implement at least modest improvements), but I'd wager that the majority of each don't really meet that much, if only because the more fluent speakers may be self-starters and thus immersed enough (in individual study, socializing etc). Any stats on the relative sizes of the various sectors (too busy to check right now)? That alone might help settle things.
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming back to the topic, non-Japanese working in educational institutions.

I have been researching the number of non-Japanese working in education in Japan.

Hiroshima University reports about 8000 non-Japanese faculty in Japan's universities and colleges in 2015.
http://rihe.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/statistics/synthesis/

The JET Program stats - 4536 participants in 2016.http://jetprogramme.org/wp-content/themes/biz-vektor/pdf/countries/2016_jet_stats_e.pdf

This Japan Times article from last year says that MEXT records 18,484 ALTs in schools, 25% of which are JET. It doesn't break down how many are direct hire, or private high school teachers. I'm not identified as an ALT at the institution where I teach, and I suspect there are many others like me rolled into that MEXT statistic.

You're welcome.
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fluffytwo



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking more in terms of total number of students per foreigner employed. (Public school) AETs must be spread thinner (as well as being more constrained and underutilized) than the average uni lecturer for example, which could affect perceptions if not outcomes too.
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taikibansei



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TokyoLiz wrote:
Coming back to the topic, non-Japanese working in educational institutions.

I have been researching the number of non-Japanese working in education in Japan.

Hiroshima University reports about 8000 non-Japanese faculty in Japan's universities and colleges in 2015.
http://rihe.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/en/statistics/synthesis/

The JET Program stats - 4536 participants in 2016.http://jetprogramme.org/wp-content/themes/biz-vektor/pdf/countries/2016_jet_stats_e.pdf

This Japan Times article from last year says that MEXT records 18,484 ALTs in schools, 25% of which are JET. It doesn't break down how many are direct hire, or private high school teachers. I'm not identified as an ALT at the institution where I teach, and I suspect there are many others like me rolled into that MEXT statistic.

You're welcome.


The Hiroshima University resource you share above seems off by a lot. The total number of foreign university faculty was 17,079 back in 2007:

http://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/chukyo/chukyo4/020/gijiroku/08041506/003.htm

It was 19,196 in 2013:

http://www.mext.go.jp/b_menu/shingi/chousa/koutou/57/siryo/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2013/11/28/1341936_07_1.pdf

And is over 21,000 now. However, this number includes non-tenured and/or part-time foreign faculty. I'm wondering if the Hiroshima University report includes only full-time, tenured foreign faculty? If so, it would be good for them to make this clearer, huh?
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taikibansei wrote

Quote:
And is over 21,000 now.


Thanks for that!

That number indicates non-Japanese faculty including all fields, right? You bet there are profs that teach in other fields, or instruct in Japanese, s the number isn’t solely a total of English teaching faculty.

The Hiroshima Uni PDF breaks down the categories, but it’s still way off the MEXT numbers you provide.

Again, back to the topic. If we go by those numbers, then it’s possible a large portion of non-Japanese working here, Eikawa, juku, ALT, High School teacher, uni instructor, have done teacher preparation of some kind.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffytwo wrote:
What's that, teaching (or if you prefer, classroom-based learning), you say? Surprised Razz Eikaiwa may have been originally intended (and indeed may still be) for knee-deep dips of "immersion", but the clientele hasn't on average been doing a very good job of teaching itself, has it. For most it seems to be Natsuki-level (of Abroad in Japan fame) hobby~escape fantasy at best. I'll tell you though if and when Hiroyuki Sanada-level walks in for some reason (took a wrong turn, I'd expect). Same thing with JET etc (at JHS level upwards, at least), except that really was or is doomed from the start due to the age range and limited motivation of the students, and too many cooks.

That is quite different from other contexts (reasonably progressive private high schools, unis etc), and nobody is saying there aren't any reasonably fluent Japanese speakers of English, or indeed halfway-decent foreign English teachers here (i.e. those who can suggest if not actually implement at least modest improvements), but I'd wager that the majority of each don't really meet that much, if only because the more fluent speakers may be self-starters and thus immersed enough (in individual study, socializing etc). Any stats on the relative sizes of the various sectors (too busy to check right now)? That alone might help settle things.


I feel that eikaiwa are utilized as well. Going for an hour or so once a week, you'll get good at very few skills, and languages are demanding. It should be seen as a place to get live talking time, or grammar help, not a place to do most of your learning.

I too have seen the self starters thrive and get better. My wife is one of those. Spending tons on books and classes, which are questionable in nature isn't the best way to fluency.
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taikibansei



Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 811
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TokyoLiz wrote:

That number indicates non-Japanese faculty including all fields, right? You bet there are profs that teach in other fields, or instruct in Japanese, s the number isn’t solely a total of English teaching faculty.


Yes, that number includes all non-Japanese faculty teaching in all fields who work at a Japanese university/college.

TokyoLiz wrote:

Again, back to the topic. If we go by those numbers, then it’s possible a large portion of non-Japanese working here, Eikawa, juku, ALT, High School teacher, uni instructor, have done teacher preparation of some kind.


The last time I checked, almost 100% of full-time, tenured foreign university faculty have a Masters + teaching experience + refereed publications. (If you think I'm wrong on this, pm me with links to people who don't have all three.) Many--including myself and all of my foreign colleagues--have a PhD and an MA, both of which contained instruction in instructional method and a supervised practicum.

I haven't researched K-12 here, but at least at the university level, the 'unqualified foreigner' stereotype hasn't been accurate for years.
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The last time I checked, almost 100% of full-time, tenured foreign university faculty have a Masters + teaching experience + refereed publications. (If you think I'm wrong on this, pm me with links to people who don't have all three.) Many--including myself and all of my foreign colleagues--have a PhD and an MA, both of which contained instruction in instructional method and a supervised practicum.


I have never met anyone in a tenured position without the combo you indicate. It just doesn’t happen.

On my side, in the last five years, I’d say less than a 1/4 of the non-Japanese I meet working in private high schools lack a TESOL diploma and/or k-12 qualification.

Many private schools, and agencies that do placements for them, won’t look at any candidate without Japan experience and TESOL diploma or MA. The one person I know working in a private high school but lacks a qualification has over 20 years of experience in ES, JHS and SHS and is bilingual.

Some agencies in Tokyo will only hire K-12 teachers for private school positions.

And then there are jukus in which non-Japanese teachers might find positions. Am I right, you have to be qualified up to get the good jobs?

So the unqualified foreigner we’re talking about is an Eikawa employee or a dispatch ALT with no preparation and no Japanese language skill.

And then there are the exceptions - qualified teachers who get in the door with Eikawa or dispatch ALT positions, and then move on to direct hire, private school or even uni positions. I worked next to people who went this route.
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fluffytwo



Joined: 24 Sep 2016
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
I feel that eikaiwa are utilized as well. Going for an hour or so once a week, you'll get good at very few skills, and languages are demanding. It should be seen as a place to get live talking time, or grammar help, not a place to do most of your learning.


Too many people have bought into the 'You learn a language by speaking it' line. As if they have on the whole already learnt enough to be able to speak (an indivisible, all-encompassing) 'it' and just need a bit of so-called "practice" (but lo and behold all the pressures and wants and needs of whatever actual communication start getting in the way. Playing musical scales or chairs or whatever is a bit different from actually carrying a tune).

In other words, speaking is "a necessary but not sufficient condition" for language learning - listening and (somewhat later) reading, noticing etc are or should be much more primary. Some textual and thus discourse-level study, and a modicum of translation etc would also help, but all this is usually anathema for some reason (baby with bathwater eh).

The fact that they are also speaking (or trying to speak) to a(n already-)paid listener, who may ultimately be uncaring or unable to do much about their struggling, also seems to escape most students.
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1548
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fluffytwo wrote

Quote:
was thinking more in terms of total number of students per foreigner employed. (Public school) AETs must be spread thinner (as well as being more constrained and underutilized) than the average uni lecturer for example, which could affect perceptions if not outcomes too.


Good point. “Please teach this class of 40 students public speaking, debate and general conversation skills.” The demands and constraints on non-Japanese teachers can be crazy.

A school gave me two classes of senior high grade 2 students and told me to teach communication. I managed it, but it was only doable because the students were highly motivated and would work independently, and I had a lot of experience with CLL (the cooperative kind, not the computer) to provide structure and technique.

Later Fluffy wrote
Quote:
... speaking is "a necessary but not sufficient condition" for language learning - listening and (somewhat later) reading, noticing etc are or should be much more primary. Some textual and thus discourse-level study, and a modicum of translation etc would also help, but all this is usually anathema for some reason (baby with bathwater eh).


Right. Science tells us that it takes a specific number of hours of input before output begins. But know-nothing Eikawa owners with business plans tell fresh employees to teach English conversation to six year olds.

TPR is a great way to provide input and response to confirm comprehension for very young students. Minimal or even no output required.

But business plans for ekimae eikaiwa don’t often include valid language learning pedagogy, do they?

A little off topic but another factor when it comes to output - teenagers and their energy levels/wakefulness early in the day. They’re not ready to talk to anybody in any language before 10am on a Monday. My first period Monday English Communication class starts with “front end listening”. They grumble, yawn and get through the first 25 minutes, I confirm comprehension by having them repeat back in Japanese. and then I ask them if they want to practice the functional language I’m attempting to teach them. They usually drag themselves upright, do whatever speaking task, and collapse just before the bell.
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 1629

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fluffytwo wrote:


Too many people have bought into the 'You learn a language by speaking it' line. As if they have on the whole already learnt enough to be able to speak (an indivisible, all-encompassing) 'it' and just need a bit of so-called "practice" (but lo and behold all the pressures and wants and needs of whatever actual communication start getting in the way. Playing musical scales or chairs or whatever is a bit different from actually carrying a tune).

In other words, speaking is "a necessary but not sufficient condition" for language learning - listening and (somewhat later) reading, noticing etc are or should be much more primary. Some textual and thus discourse-level study, and a modicum of translation etc would also help, but all this is usually anathema for some reason (baby with bathwater eh).

The fact that they are also speaking (or trying to speak) to a(n already-)paid listener, who may ultimately be uncaring or unable to do much about their struggling, also seems to escape most students.


Speaking, no doubt is a huge component, but it's not everything, and speaking alone quickly tops out. It's easy to steer around places that are hard and avoid them, when only speaking. Reading, and writing, man that gets tough. That is how one really masters a language, through reading comp and being able to write for others to read.

I think many eikaiwa teachers dumb down their English more than they teach their students. Which really isn't helpful in the long run. It's not any good to speak to an English speaker who is miming a Japanese person who can kinda speak English. It makes for a strange audience.
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kzjohn



Joined: 30 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rxk22 wrote:
...
I think many eikaiwa teachers dumb down their English more than they teach their students. ...


That sounds like a simple generalization, can I ask what it's based on?

I mean, I could have as easily said, "Most eikaiwa teachers are excellent teachers, and they never dumb down their lessons."

Can you offer how to decide which is true? Any evidence?
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rxk22



Joined: 19 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kzjohn wrote:


That sounds like a simple generalization, can I ask what it's based on?

I mean, I could have as easily said, "Most eikaiwa teachers are excellent teachers, and they never dumb down their lessons."

Can you offer how to decide which is true? Any evidence?


Simple, data gathering and surveying. When you meet someone do you ask questions? I do, and I ask similar ones as I collect data and try to get meaning from it.
I also have had the opportunity to watch many classes and have people come in for interviews, and watched them teach.
If one is measured and knows what to ask and how to ask it, it's very easy to get a fairly sizable survey. I'd say that my survey which is probably around 100 is a fairly accurate survey for regular eikaiwa.

Again how do I know? I don't, not for sure, but from seeing a myriad of classes from a variety of teachers, I am fairly confident in my opinion

Edit I'll look later but there are alt as well as eikaiwa training videos where they clearly mix Japanese and English in live classes
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