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Is Part-Time work on a Z-visa still illegal?

 
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Is Part-Time work on a Z-visa still illegal? Reply with quote

Under the new system, if you have a legit Z-Visa then residence permit, with a Foreign Experts Cert and all the trimmings, is it still illegal to teach for another employer, even if your sponsoring employer doesn't care?

In the past, the belief has always been that it is illegal. However, this being China, there are degrees of illegality, and that part-time while properly documented would be punished less severely than say doing any teaching work on a Tourist or Business Visa, with no FEX.

For example, I read one post where someone with all the Z-visa/FEX docs got caught in Beijing tutoring on the side and wasn't automatically jailed and deported, but still fined 10,000 RMB.

I've had other friends tell me that while you might wiggle out of it before it goes on the record, once officially recorded, part-time work on the side on a Z Visa will receive an automatic deportation, at least temporary blacklisting, and a fine. Possibly some jail as well.

Any thoughts or comments? Where's China t on this these days?
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RunItTwice



Joined: 17 May 2018
Posts: 18
Location: Scotland...for now

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My FAO offered part-time work and substitute teaching leads to foreign university teachers he worked with. Perhaps the government isn't as aggressive when it comes to enforcing Z-visa regulations in small cities as they are in Beijing and Shanghai.
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teenoso



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 337
Location: south china

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on the scale of the transgression - if you do odd weekends for a colleague at his/her private training school , then nobody will know or mind, and if you're caught , I guess it would be a fine or a warning.

As far as I know, your main school will never say they don't care , because they know the rules, but at the same time the FAO may ask you to help with some outside classes.

One foreign colleague had lots of private students , and actually opened his own training school on the outskirts of the city , and did very well for a year or so, until the local competition reported him to the police. But I don't think he lost his main job , at least not immediately.
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Word on the street here, and it's just word on the street, is that once officially booked, any violation of immigration law will result in revocation of your residence permit as a minimum.

Local police may decide to let you off without booking the crime, but these days, everything feels tighter, and I wouldn't count on it.
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Pekingtom



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there any difference between working on the side for another company and tutoring a few students in your home? My contract specifically says that I cannot work for another company...but does not say anything about tutoring in my home.
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is source of confusion for many. Contracts have often stipulated whether you can or cannot work a second job.
The USA Embassy website had a post implying you may be able to work a second job if your school lets you, etc.
But my understanding is that Chinese immigration law uncategorically states you can only work for the one employer who gave your visa.
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Osiry



Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 73
Location: Nanjing

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that the Chinese labour/immigration law enforcement officers really care about what the contract you have with your employer says Razz
If you're in breach, then you're in breach, regardless of whether you have a signed statement from your employer saying that they don't mind.
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I was just speculating on the source of the confusion among teachers.
There will be no such confusion among immigration officers!
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cdchristy



Joined: 15 Oct 2016
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I came to China in 2014, I have had two FAO's (same province) tell me that the policy was don't ask/don't tell. Currently, the policy seems to be as follows: Make sure your FAO has signed off on it and everything will be fine. This is a recent development. I know this because a fellow FT had a little trouble because he was working several jobs on the side. While his FAO was aware of most of these jobs, he failed to tell her about one. At the end of the day, he barely got a slap on the wrist.
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Kalkstein



Joined: 25 Aug 2016
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's clearly illegal. If the education bureau/Immigration & Exit find out about you, you will be in trouble no matter what your FAO has said. They usually aren't anywhere near as accustomed to the law as these people. The don't ask/don't policy is to mitigate consequences for the university. I've seen people caught working illegally even when their university said it was OK.

If you want to do these type of jobs and I'm not saying you should or should not, you have to accept there might be consequences.
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Simon in Suzhou



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 348
Location: GZ

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kalkestein is right. I looked into the REALITY of this a couple years ago, not just what people "told" me they thought the situation was.

Working a 2nd job not at the address of your sponsoring visa IS illegal. Your employer can give you permission for a 2nd job, but they must REGISTER this employment with the government (who wants to make sure they're getting their taxes). Most employers are not gonna go through the hassle to do this for you with no benefit for them, so if they're nice they'll just say "go ahead, don't worry about it." But perchance you make the wrong person angry or there is a sudden anti-foreigner crackdown in your city, you can get fined and deported for that part-time job that traditionally no one cared about in China. Probably you'll be fine. Most are, but...
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone has more information on what is needed to make a second job fully legal when on a Z visa, I'd love to hear more.
Obviously, I'll also do my own research, but practical experience would also be useful to hear about.
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Pekingtom



Joined: 06 Apr 2015
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My information comes from Shenzhen, from about 3 years ago. My employer at that time told me that I could work on the side as long as they processed the income - and deducted taxes from it. According to them, each foreigner is assigned a unique tax id (maybe similar to a social security number) and only the school that sponsors that person can use that tax number. I never took them up on their offer but other teachers did. In China there are more than just tax issues at stake. Each company that signs off on our work visas is responsible for our well being in the country. This also plays into the equation.
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cdchristy



Joined: 15 Oct 2016
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe my previous comment was unclear. Within the last two months, the PSB told my friend if he works for other companies, the FAO must know about it and inform the PSB. Sorry, if my comments were two jumbled. As far as legality in this matter, I do not know. I just know what the local PSB has recently said. It could change anytime and without warning a teacher could be in peril (at least this is what I have gotten in my time here).
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Voyeur



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 410

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Between tax laws and immigration laws, I bet it would be practically impossible to get fully legal permission to work legally for two unrelated employers and locations. That's my gut feeling from being in China for a while.
It's likely theoretically legal, but so complex as to be nearly impossible to do. And your primary Z Visa sponsor probably would simply not be willing to do it 99% of the time.
That all said, for long-term sustainability in China, I might look into it. Just to be sure.
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