Site Search:
 
Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!
Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Alternative Ways to Fund PGCE (Non EU)

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Europe Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RoadAbTeach



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:55 am    Post subject: Alternative Ways to Fund PGCE (Non EU) Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,

I'm hoping to get some info on ways that an international student might fund (even partially) a PGCE. I emailed some universities and they said funding is out of the question because of my status; they did say there are alternative ways to fund them, but, of course, they didn't say exactly what those ways are.

The PGCE is ridiculously expensive (at least for international students) and I was wondering whether there may be scholarships specifically for people in my situation, or possibly other means. Even the UK/EU fees are quite high, although not as outrageous.

A bit about me: I have an MA in English and a CELTA. Right now, I'm teaching composition at a community college in the US, but I want to teach English in Europe--not exactly a millionaire, to say the least.

I prefer the PGCE because I'm hoping to make this a long-term thing (yes, I understand regarding the visa issue, but let's assume this isn't an issue for now).

I will appreciate any advice. Thank you in advance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11382
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoadAbTeach wrote:
I'm hoping to get some info on ways that an international student might fund (even partially) a PGCE. I emailed some universities and they said funding is out of the question because of my status; they did say there are alternative ways to fund them, but, of course, they didn't say exactly what those ways are.
....
I have an MA in English and a CELTA. Right now, I'm teaching composition at a community college in the US, but I want to teach English in Europe.

I prefer the PGCE because I'm hoping to make this a long-term thing (yes, I understand regarding the visa issue, but let's assume this isn't an issue for now).

Look into European universities that offer free or reduced tuition for international students. Additionally, check out How to Get Teacher Certification to Teach in England.

That said...

As an American, you really cannot ignore the visa issue regardless of how much and how long you want to teach in Europe. Moreover, there's the related component of supply and demand. Have you researched the need for English teachers? Since English language curriculum has been the standard for years in many public educational systems and international schools across Europe, there's likely not a huge demand for foreign, native-speaking teachers when qualified bilingual locals are available and preferred.

Your chances might improve if you switched to one of the STEM subjects. But that would require a bigger time and financial commitment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGCEs/teaching licenses are generally for local teachers teaching local students, therefore, you need to speak the local language to a high level. Which European languages do you speak to a high level? If the answer is zero, I don't see how a PGCE is even remotely possible in Europe (excluding Ireland/UK) unless there's something I don't know. The only European countries outside of UK/Ireland that have English as an official language are Cyprus and Malta if I'm not mistaken but have no idea how their teaching licenses operate. On top of that given that the locals there speak English who do you think they would prefer to recruit: a local with experience of the local curriculum or a monolingual North American?

I think if you speak zero European languages to a very high level you should simply forget about this idea, it seems to me to be a pipe dream! As a state school teacher you'll need to write reports on students, attend meetings with colleagues, meet/phone/email parents to discuss their child's progress and so forth, obviously all in the local language (all of which I do in my school in France)

I don't understand why you don't just get certified in the USA? Or is it purely due to the cost? If you want to do a PGCE in the UK there are tax free bursaries for shortage subjects, however, English is most certainly not one of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoadAbTeach



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
PGCEs/teaching licenses are generally for local teachers teaching local students, therefore, you need to speak the local language to a high level. Which European languages do you speak to a high level? If the answer is zero, I don't see how a PGCE is even remotely possible in Europe (excluding Ireland/UK) unless there's something I don't know. The only European countries outside of UK/Ireland that have English as an official language are Cyprus and Malta if I'm not mistaken but have no idea how their teaching licenses operate. On top of that given that the locals there speak English who do you think they would prefer to recruit: a local with experience of the local curriculum or a monolingual North American?

I think if you speak zero European languages to a very high level you should simply forget about this idea, it seems to me to be a pipe dream! As a state school teacher you'll need to write reports on students, attend meetings with colleagues, meet/phone/email parents to discuss their child's progress and so forth, obviously all in the local language (all of which I do in my school in France)

I don't understand why you don't just get certified in the USA? Or is it purely due to the cost? If you want to do a PGCE in the UK there are tax free bursaries for shortage subjects, however, English is most certainly not one of them.


Hi Yuri,

Thanks for the info. I see your point, but I do speak German and Russian. Secondly, why would I get certified in the US if I want to teach in Europe anyways? I understand the licenses probably transfer, but why create additional hurdles when my end goal is not the US?

OK, assuming I don't do the PGCE. How much more opportunity would the DELTA open up, for example? It would be cheaper for me and probably shorter, but still Level 7, except it doesn't bestow QTS, I assume. Does it provide MUCH more opportunity than a CELTA, or only a little bit more (with regard to Europe only)?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11382
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoadAbTeach wrote:
Assuming I don't do the PGCE. How much more opportunity would the DELTA open up, for example? It would be cheaper for me and probably shorter, but still Level 7, except it doesn't bestow QTS, I assume. Does it provide MUCH more opportunity than a CELTA, or only a little bit more (with regard to Europe only)?

Be aware the Delta is a professional development qualification and not a substitute for a k-12, academic teacher license/cert.

and wrote:
Why would I get certified in the US if I want to teach in Europe anyways? I understand the licenses probably transfer, but why create additional hurdles when my end goal is not the US?

Your interest in a cheap, quick PGCE may be a pipe dream, especially since schools abroad also want to see relevant teaching experience. If you're willing to compromise on time and effort, there are budget-friendly US teacher education programs w/a practical component leading to a transferable license.

I suggest checking current ads and school websites to see what international schools in Russia and Germany require. For example, an ad for an English teacher at a Russian school:
    Minimum Requirement: B.Ed, BA Degree with a relevant PGCE (QTS/GTC/GTP)
    Experience: 2 Years
    Type of Staff:
    • Must be western trained (USA, Canada, UK, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc.)
    • Must be a native speaker of English
    • STRONG Newly Qualified Teachers (NQT's) can apply
    • A Newly Qualified Teachers program is not provided
    • Prefer candidates with international experience
    • Open University qualification(s) are NOT accepted
    • Teachers with a degree but no teaching qualification are NOT accepted
    • Experienced teachers with no qualification are NOT accepted
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Hi Yuri,

Thanks for the info. I see your point, but I do speak German and Russian. Secondly, why would I get certified in the US if I want to teach in Europe anyways? I understand the licenses probably transfer, but why create additional hurdles when my end goal is not the US?


Well, a US teaching certification would probably be better long term and more valued around the world opening doors for international schools. I mean let's say there's an American international school in Berlin, I think they'd prefer someone with knowledge of the American curriculum not local. You say Europe is your preference so why not go there directly? You could be right but I have no idea how their teaching licenses work. For example if you want to work in the state sector in Spain and France yes you'll need to do THEIR teaching license. For example, I have a PGCE but France/Spain don't recognise UK PGCEs! However, then that means for such cases you'll need to do the local PGCE in the precise country you want to settle down in and work. So for that reason maybe a US teaching certification is better and looking for international school jobs in Europe rather than local ones.

1 How high is your German and Russian? In other words, can you write academic texts in these languages to a university standard?

2 You need to investigate how teaching licenses work in these countries: who can apply, how much it costs, how long it lasts etc and who knows how difficult it is to get on. As I mentioned on the thread on the general forum Spanish and French PGCEs are vastly different. What actual investigation have you done about how this all works in Germany (or German speaking countries in Europe) and Russia if they are your target countries?

3 I hope you realise in some European countries your teaching experiences there could be pretty damn tough. In France if you pass the official exams you're stuck in a school that they choose. So if you have an apartment you'll have to leave and potentially travel to the other side of the country and potentially put into an awful school. You can't simply leave the post, if you leave you're essentially leaving teaching. You need to suck it up for a certain amount of time before asking for a transfer and gain 'points'.


Quote:
OK, assuming I don't do the PGCE. How much more opportunity would the DELTA open up, for example? It would be cheaper for me and probably shorter, but still Level 7, except it doesn't bestow QTS, I assume. Does it provide MUCH more opportunity than a CELTA, or only a little bit more (with regard to Europe only)?


Regarding a DELTA no idea, all I know is if you want to work in high schools a DELTA is probably a waste of time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoadAbTeach



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
RoadAbTeach wrote:
Assuming I don't do the PGCE. How much more opportunity would the DELTA open up, for example? It would be cheaper for me and probably shorter, but still Level 7, except it doesn't bestow QTS, I assume. Does it provide MUCH more opportunity than a CELTA, or only a little bit more (with regard to Europe only)?

Be aware the Delta is a professional development qualification and not a substitute for a k-12, academic teacher license/cert.

and wrote:
Why would I get certified in the US if I want to teach in Europe anyways? I understand the licenses probably transfer, but why create additional hurdles when my end goal is not the US?

Your interest in a cheap, quick PGCE may be a pipe dream, especially since schools abroad also want to see relevant teaching experience. If you're willing to compromise on time and effort, there are budget-friendly US teacher education programs w/a practical component leading to a transferable license.

I suggest checking current ads and school websites to see what international schools in Russia and Germany require. For example, an ad for an English teacher at a Russian school:
    Minimum Requirement: B.Ed, BA Degree with a relevant PGCE (QTS/GTC/GTP)
    Experience: 2 Years
    Type of Staff:
    • Must be western trained (USA, Canada, UK, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, etc.)
    • Must be a native speaker of English
    • STRONG Newly Qualified Teachers (NQT's) can apply
    • A Newly Qualified Teachers program is not provided
    • Prefer candidates with international experience
    • Open University qualification(s) are NOT accepted
    • Teachers with a degree but no teaching qualification are NOT accepted
    • Experienced teachers with no qualification are NOT accepted


Thank you, Nomad Soul; this gives me an impression of what I am up against. Again, at this point I'm debating the PGCE, especially with my status. I may just go to Europe in the beginning, and work my way up slowly to a more less stable position, instead of just front-loading it with a bunch of certificates that may or may not be useful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoadAbTeach



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
Quote:

Hi Yuri,

Thanks for the info. I see your point, but I do speak German and Russian. Secondly, why would I get certified in the US if I want to teach in Europe anyways? I understand the licenses probably transfer, but why create additional hurdles when my end goal is not the US?


Well, a US teaching certification would probably be better long term and more valued around the world opening doors for international schools. I mean let's say there's an American international school in Berlin, I think they'd prefer someone with knowledge of the American curriculum not local. You say Europe is your preference so why not go there directly? You could be right but I have no idea how their teaching licenses work. For example if you want to work in the state sector in Spain and France yes you'll need to do THEIR teaching license. For example, I have a PGCE but France/Spain don't recognise UK PGCEs! However, then that means for such cases you'll need to do the local PGCE in the precise country you want to settle down in and work. So for that reason maybe a US teaching certification is better and looking for international school jobs in Europe rather than local ones.

1 How high is your German and Russian? In other words, can you write academic texts in these languages to a university standard?

2 You need to investigate how teaching licenses work in these countries: who can apply, how much it costs, how long it lasts etc and who knows how difficult it is to get on. As I mentioned on the thread on the general forum Spanish and French PGCEs are vastly different. What actual investigation have you done about how this all works in Germany (or German speaking countries in Europe) and Russia if they are your target countries?

3 I hope you realise in some European countries your teaching experiences there could be pretty damn tough. In France if you pass the official exams you're stuck in a school that they choose. So if you have an apartment you'll have to leave and potentially travel to the other side of the country and potentially put into an awful school. You can't simply leave the post, if you leave you're essentially leaving teaching. You need to suck it up for a certain amount of time before asking for a transfer and gain 'points'.


Quote:
OK, assuming I don't do the PGCE. How much more opportunity would the DELTA open up, for example? It would be cheaper for me and probably shorter, but still Level 7, except it doesn't bestow QTS, I assume. Does it provide MUCH more opportunity than a CELTA, or only a little bit more (with regard to Europe only)?


Regarding a DELTA no idea, all I know is if you want to work in high schools a DELTA is probably a waste of time.


Yuri,

Thank you very much for this; quite a bit of it was news to me. I thought with a PGCE and I'm good to go, but if it doesn't apply to some countries, as you say, obviously I'm going start thinking about the immediate necessity of this. Also, you may be right regarding the American teaching licenses; I had never thought of it that way before. My reasoning with the PGCE was that it was ultimately European and I would have thought that European employers look more favorably to their own credentials, but if if this is not the case in France or Spain, for example, then I'll probably think long and hard before committing said 20,000 Euro for something that is only marginally useful in some countries.

My German is at a pretty high level. I feel comfortable writing and reading it.
With the Russian, I'm quite able to converse freely and read generally well, but the writing itself would be a problem.

As I said, pretty eye-opening information, Yuri. Thank you very much. I'm glad to have it from a local. I will reconsider my options, given the new information. As I told Nomad, I may go to Europe and start with entry-level jobs with the CELTA that I have, and then take it one step at a time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome. The French/Spanish system is kind of weird but once you get a permanent job you're more or less in for life.

Why don't you investigate how teaching licenses work in Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein or Austria? But I imagine they favour locals https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/272138-becoming-a-german-state-teacher/

Have you considered teaching German in the UK? If accepted onto a PGCE course you could get a tax free bursary (not for English though) https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-my-teacher-training/bursaries-and-scholarships-for-teacher-training

There is also this in the UK https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-my-options/teacher-training-routes/school-led-training/school-direct-salaried it's kind of like a PGCE but you receive a salary and the schools usually expect you to work for them after. Many if I'm not mistaken give you PGCE and QTS. I almost accepted one (a non-salaried one but with the bursary) in England but ended up turning them down to do the regular PGCE.

But, at the same time you'd need to be in the UK for interviews. It's very rare that they do online ones. Also, bear in mind they'd probably expect you to teach French alongside German (for beginners they put you on a fully paid for summer course so you can teach basic French). As I say the big problem is you'd need to fly to the UK and do interviews there and you might not be interested in teaching German though. I mention this as it's an opportunity to get funding for the PGCE and even if you don't teach German after the PGCE it's useful to have any teaching license.


Regarding Europe and finding a job I think you need to be aware of the visa issue. What countries are you interested in? Europe is a big place!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoadAbTeach



Joined: 13 Nov 2017
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
You're welcome. The French/Spanish system is kind of weird but once you get a permanent job you're more or less in for life.

Why don't you investigate how teaching licenses work in Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein or Austria? But I imagine they favour locals https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/272138-becoming-a-german-state-teacher/

Have you considered teaching German in the UK? If accepted onto a PGCE course you could get a tax free bursary (not for English though) https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-my-teacher-training/bursaries-and-scholarships-for-teacher-training

There is also this in the UK https://getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/explore-my-options/teacher-training-routes/school-led-training/school-direct-salaried it's kind of like a PGCE but you receive a salary and the schools usually expect you to work for them after. Many if I'm not mistaken give you PGCE and QTS. I almost accepted one (a non-salaried one but with the bursary) in England but ended up turning them down to do the regular PGCE.

But, at the same time you'd need to be in the UK for interviews. It's very rare that they do online ones. Also, bear in mind they'd probably expect you to teach French alongside German (for beginners they put you on a fully paid for summer course so you can teach basic French). As I say the big problem is you'd need to fly to the UK and do interviews there and you might not be interested in teaching German though. I mention this as it's an opportunity to get funding for the PGCE and even if you don't teach German after the PGCE it's useful to have any teaching license.


Regarding Europe and finding a job I think you need to be aware of the visa issue. What countries are you interested in? Europe is a big place!


Yuri, I greatly appreciate this advice. Although I haven't been on this forum very long, I must say this is hands down the best, and most thorough advice I have received here. I will definitely look into all of this information and proceed accordingly. These opportunities were unknown to me before. Many thanks again and I wish you all the best.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome! All the best and don't forget to update us later to tell us what you do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Europe Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Teaching Jobs in China
Teaching Jobs in China