Job Discussion Forums

[Hokkaidal]

Hello everyone,

I've been teaching English in Japan for two and a half years and I've now decided to go teach in China.Like the title suggests I would like your advice and opinions about the location and types of jobs I
should look for.

Firstly I'm looking to work in Shanghai or the cities next to it, Jiaxing and Suzhou. I might consider Wuxi, Huzou or Hangzhou depending on the distance and time to Shanghai airport. I need a quick and easy access to it since I have a daughter here in Japan and I'm planning on visiting her as much as I can. I would greatly appreciate your inputs regarding these cities.

Secondly from what I gather most of the jobs are in kindergardens, private language schools and primary/secondary schools. I read about training centers but I assume they're the same as private schools right? Again I wouldbe very appreciative if you could share your experiences and offer some opinions on these schools.


Thank you in advance for your responses.

[Osiry]

To be able to give useful advice we're going to need some more information about your qualifications and work experience.
Also, why did you decide on China, and what type of job are you looking for? Public school? Training center? International school? What age do you want to teach? Adults? Children?
There are so many different opportunities here, it's going to be very difficult for anybody to point you in the right direction without a bit more info.

[Simon in Suzhou]

Worked in Suzhou for a year and it's a lovely city. Super convenient to Shanghai with the high-speed rail.

China has the full-range of opportunities in ESL that most experienced teachers with a bachelor's degree can get into. It's a teacher's market. Generally in China the amount of effort/hours you're willing to put in will equal your salary. You can get by and save a little teaching oral English at a college/uni with minimal effort and loads of free time. If you're ambitious you might take a second job or do some privates. You can slave yourself out full time to a private academy or kindergarten teaching kids which will usually entail exhaustion but a better paycheck. You can take a job in a real primary or middle school and make pretty good money, not teach too many classes, but probably have lots of meaningless desk time in an 8-5 kinda gig. Depends what you're looking for.

What I think people should look for in job offers: SPECIFIC location of school (not out in the middle of nowhere hours from the city advertised), teaching hours, hours actually required at work, salary after tax, housing options (with photos if they provide the apt), how many other western co-teachers.

[Simon in Suzhou]

In China, a private school could be a corporate academy that students attend after school/after work/on the weekends, or it could be a private elementary, middle, or high school which is a proper school (but not on the level of international schools). A private middle school for example will probably have wealthier kids who opt out of public education. Thus the schools have more money to pay teachers, generally. Private universities also usually pay a little more than public ones.

[Simon in Suzhou]

Also, while salaries and total hours may be similar between a private training center job and say a public middle school, the training center will often have more teaching hours, while the public school will often have fewer classes but very large classes (40+).

[Mixal]

May we know why China?

Logistically, it doesn't seem like an ideal choice. Few thoughts:

1. Planes in China are often late. If you are going on a weekend trip to Japan, things can always go wrong.
2. Secondly, if you work in other cities nearby you probably will arrive to Hongqiao Railway Station first. The metro ride from Hongqiao to Pudong is looong and crowded. Unless your daughter lives close to Osaka or Tokyo airport, that means more hours spent traveling.
3. Flights to Japan are rarely cheap. Japan is probably the most popular destination for mainlanders at the moment and they can keep relatively high prices.
The saving potential is probably better than in Japan, but with flights and other additional inevitable costs during travel, I don't see you saving a lot.

It seems like an odd plan to be honest. If you can't/don't want to stay in Japan for whatever reason, perhaps Korea would be a better option? 1. It's closer. 2. Flights are cheaper. 3. Planes are usually on time from what I've been told.

[Hokkaidal]

Thank you very much for your replies!

@Osiry
I've taught adults and children, from 3 to 72 years old, and I have to say I enjoy both. Each age groups have their ups and downs so I suppose it all comes down to your attitude and the students themselves. The salary and working conditions will ultimately determine my decision, but with this thread I'm hoping to gain some insight on Chinese schools since I don't know much about them.

@Simon
Thank you for your posts, they're very informative!
Could you tell me more about Suzhou? Right now it's at the top of my lists so I'm quite interested in it. Also how long is the train to Shanghai?

@Mixal
Quite frankly although I am interested in the country itself and the culture the main reason for working in China is the money. Salaries in Japan have been driven down steadily for a few decades and will probably continue to decrease. Some of the offers I got in China are basically twice what I'm making here in Japan, along with free housing, monthly and annual bonuses, flight allocation, etc.

As for the cost of flights I've reaserched it and although it will definitely be more expensive I'll still be way ahead financially than here in Japan. Your comment about planes being late is worrying on the other hand, how late are we talking about? And how long is the ride from Hongquiao to Pudong? My daughter lives in Hokkaido so I will have to go to Pudong unfortunately since it's the only one who has a direct flight to Chitose airport.

[Mixal]

Sapporo? Ouch... Out of curiosity, I randomly checked some dates and it looks like the cheapest flights from Pudong to Sapporo are $400+... The flight itself is 4 hours long. Also, it looks like all the flights to Sapporo depart in the early morning. A weekend trip seems almost impossible to me. If it's a longer holiday, the flights will be a lot more expensive.

Hongqiao to Pudong is around 90 mins.

Also, regarding the public holidays. Most training centers won't know or won't tell you the schedule on purpose more than few days in advance. I can only see it somehow working if you are hired at an international (or "international") school close to airport (there are few of those, there's nothing around and they are far away from downtown so I'd guess if you're decent they would hire you). Then you will have longer summer and winter holidays plus few national holidays and you might ask a few days of extra leave. How often do you plan to see your daughter?

[nimadecaomei]

You still have not answered what your qualifications are. It seems you and the mother are not together (sorry to be blunt, I am trying to help). I would say random trips back to see your daughter will quickly become a task that will overshadow your relationship. I am a father also, and would not be that far from my son for any amount of money. I could see things quickly going downhill if that happened.

Again, qualifications or business skills are what will determine what you make here.

You also need to take into account the hoops to jump through to become legal here. You will need an authenticated degree, authenticated criminal check, and most likely a med check. This is not so cheap. Beyond that you might need to go back home country to apply for the correct visa (HK is possible but it really depends on the school/company).

I am not trying to dissuade you, just giving possible pitfalls.

Good luck

[Hokkaidal]

Thank you both for making me aware of these pitfalls. Wow, 90 minutes is a lot, it didn't look that far on the map lol. I'm planning to see her as much as I can although it's becoming clear that it will be difficult. I used to go see her three days every two months but now my ex-wife got a new job (she's a nurse) and she can no longer take three consecutive days off that often. So I suppose whether I'm in Japan or in China the best I can hope for is seeing her every 3-4 months.

About my qualifications I have a BA with 2 and a half years experience teaching here in Japan. I've taught children and adults at a private English school and an after school, which is where I'm currently working.

Is it easier to get to Shanghai from Jiaxing or from Suzhou? And for anyone who knows both where would you rather live and why?

[rioux]

It's easier to get to Shanghai from Suzhou.
I lived in Jiaxing. Besides it relatively close proximity to Shanghai there isn't anything that great about it. Yes, it's better than many places that are out in the middle of nowhere, but for its location it isn't very international.

[Simon in Suzhou]

The high speed train from Suzhou to downtown Shanghai is like 25 minutes.

Suzhou is the "Venice of China," with canals going around the old city center. Lower your expectations. It's nothing like Venice, but there is water with some nice old bridges and a flavor of traditional China. Lots of beautiful, traditional gardens to wander around in on the weekends. An overabundance of electric bicycles- the silent death of Suzhou. Look carefully before crossing the road or actually anytime walking on the sidewalk. A new area (SIP) with economic ties to Singapore with tons of upscale western restaurants and bars.

[teenoso]

I don't know what your salary expectations are , but I would concentrate on Shanghai for the high-end pay . Places like Jiaxing and Huzhou may have the odd international school but Jiaxing in particular is very provincial and might come as shock after Japan.
Suzhou, Kunshan and Wuxi are a different kettle of fish, and easily reachable by high speed train from Shanghai , but I agree with others, Pudong Airport is always a challenge to get to from downtown Shanghai - not difficult, just time-consuming and tedious.

I'm amazed at there being a salary advantage here, over Japan, though I know Hokkaido is also provincial and probably pays less than other provinces in Japan.
International schools or kindergartens may be your best choice. But I would have thought the extra travel expenses to and fro Japan would wipe out any extra money you might earn here.
One thing you must look for , imo, is free accommodation, since Shanghai and maybe Suzhou, are expensive places to rent.

[Hokkaidal]

Thank you for your informative posts Simon, you've been very helpful!

I don't live in Hokkaido anymore, I had to leave since there's basically no jobs there. There's a pretty big difference in salary between China and Japan since wages in Japan have been steadily driven down over the past few decades. The golden age of English teaching is long gone here while it seems to be in full swing in China. And if you factor in the free housing, bonuses and various allowances the difference is quite big.

After reading about Jiaxing I came to that conclusion and I've now narrowed my choices down to Suzhou or Shanghai. If anyone wishes to share their thoughts and experiences about the two cities I'd love to hear them.

[Elicit]

Assuming you’d lived in both, you would likely miss Shanghai if living in Suzhou, but would not miss Suzhou if living in Shanghai. That is if you sided with the majority who have lived in both.

Many more opportunities in Shanghai too. Assuming the housing’s nailed down with the primary gig, there is plenty of extra money to be earned if one so wishes.