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IF I had it to do over, I would not enter into ESL teaching.
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Unheard Utterance



Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you’ve done, as I suspected, your teaching license. Obviously that is what was required in order to gain such a high paying job. You’re clearly pretty smug, and it’s good to see you’ve got a head cheerleader.

I don’t have a teaching license, but I’m able to save $35-$40k AUD a year in my current job. This is not normal. This is an outlier as is Sgt Welsh’s position.

The moral of the story; get out of TEFL and get a teaching license and become a “real” teacher as opposed to someone with a non-related BA, a micky mouse 4 week CELTA and the ability to speak English. Even those with a Masters in TEFL aren’t earning very much these days.

Of course, there are outliers, but there are very few TEFL jobs that pay well these days.

Prove me wrong glass half fullers.
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bograt



Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the half fullers here. As other people have said, there are a lot of TEFLers out there not prepared to upgrade their qualifications, which makes it much easier for those who are. I've worked in a number of well paid TEFL jobs, ranging from management in Singapore, to teacher training, in Hong Kong, university work in Korea, Most jobs paid 40k-50k UK with much lower tax. I supplemented them with side jobs such as IELTS examining. I started TEFL in my mid twenties and am in my mid fifties now. I own two properties in the UK outright and have enough savings to buy a third. Also have my wife's property in Korea worth more than double all of that. i could retire today but enjoy the work.
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Unheard Utterance



Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sgt. Welsh. Seriously, learn to summarize.

If someone needs to get a Ba. Education or equivalent, then why even bother with TEFL? This is my point which you’re proving 100%

I know a few people with a Masters and they aren’t making much more than me with a simple Delta. Masters aren’t cheap, either.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unheard Utterance wrote:
Sgt. Welsh. Seriously, learn to summarize.

If someone needs to get a Ba. Education or equivalent, then why even bother with TEFL? This is my point which you’re proving 100%

I know a few people with a Masters and they aren’t making much more than me with a simple Delta. Masters aren’t cheap, either.


You are right, it was quite a bit of writing to explain, but, it appears, even after all that, some people are still capable of misunderstanding and/or misrepresenting what has been stated.

I never said anyone needs a Bachelor of Education or equivalent. I happen to have one, but, as I've stated, that is simply one of the "options" when it comes to improving your qualifications. It's a versatile degree and I don't see anything strange in a teacher choosing to study the discipline of Education. But that is beside the point. The main point is that I have stayed in TEFL and will probably continue to do so, because, it is my position, there are good opportunities in the industry for people with desirable qualifications. That's all I'm saying and you appear to be advocating an opposing view. A PGCE is simply one desirable qualification, a Masters', for example, can be another. True, it costs money to study, but, as I mentioned earlier, I see it as an investment and I know plenty of people who are still making very good bank with a Masters'. Incidentally, you know some as well.

You're currently making very good bank with your DELTA. Thirty-five to forty Aussie grand a year in savings is absolutely nothing to sniff at. BTW, I've got a lot of respect for the DELTA program, would see that as another very desirable qualification and, personally, would not say that there is anything "simple" about it. However, I've never done one. Anyway, you've said you know people with Masters' who are making more than you; even if it is just a bit more. So, no, I'm sorry, but, if anything, you're proving my point.
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Unheard Utterance



Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Location: On the road

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see some statistics on the average salary of a TEFL teacher. These discussions always end in personal anecdotes of "I'm earning X so TEFL is great" or "my mates with a Masters are earning good coin" which certainly could be true, but, I STILL maintain that high-earning TEFL jobs are slim pickings. Not impossible as we've shown, but highly unlikely.

Even though I have a Delta, my current job has an end life, and I'm not guaranteed the same money in whatever job I take next. I was looking the other day at a DoS job in Vietnam, and they were only offering $2500. This, I think at least, represents the norm in TEFL; low wages overall. A colleague with her Masters of TESOL isn't earning even what I'm on and she's in the Middle East. My point is, you're not entitled to a good salary despite the fact that you have higher qualifications than a CELTA and BA. I will say one last time: get an actual teaching qualification as it opens so many more doors than going the Cambridge CELTA and Delta route which aren't proper qualifications IMHO. Even a Masters in TESOL is lucky to have Masters status. It's hardly brain surgery.

Despite the fact that a few people earn high salaries, the job itself doesn't warrant a high salary, and most people are not earning much at all. We're not building bridges, or saving lives, after all.
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1st Sgt Welsh



Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unheard Utterance wrote:
I'd love to see some statistics on the average salary of a TEFL teacher. These discussions always end in personal anecdotes of "I'm earning X so TEFL is great" or "my mates with a Masters are earning good coin" which certainly could be true, but, I STILL maintain that high-earning TEFL jobs are slim pickings. Not impossible as we've shown, but highly unlikely.


OK. All I can go by is my experience and the people I've known with 'good' qualifications have all been able to get good jobs. If your experience tells you that's it's "slim pickings" out there then fair enough.

Unheard Utterance wrote:
Even though I have a Delta, my current job has an end life, and I'm not guaranteed the same money in whatever job I take next. I was looking the other day at a DoS job in Vietnam, and they were only offering $2500. This, I think at least, represents the norm in TEFL; low wages overall. A colleague with her Masters of TESOL isn't earning even what I'm on and she's in the Middle East. My point is, you're not entitled to a good salary despite the fact that you have higher qualifications than a CELTA and BA. I will say one last time: get an actual teaching qualification as it opens so many more doors than going the Cambridge CELTA and Delta route which aren't proper qualifications IMHO. Even a Masters in TESOL is lucky to have Masters status. It's hardly brain surgery.

Despite the fact that a few people earn high salaries, the job itself doesn't warrant a high salary, and most people are not earning much at all. We're not building bridges, or saving lives, after all.


I certainly would not discourage anyone from considering getting a PGCE. It's worked out really well for me. Best of luck with the job hunt if and when the time comes Cool.
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voyagerksa



Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A career in foriegn teaching or in ESL is a bad choice due to the avericious money making nature of private education in outlying countries as well as a lack of understanding or caring what good education requires. There are schools - international schools- that are accredited and have standards. For those you will have to have a PGCE or equivalent and experience in your home country and be lucky. There are many more Angler fish that fool educators even the very wise ones. They are almost unavoidable to those whose only wish is to teach in outlying countries. I know from experience.
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Rehcra



Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voyagerksa wrote:
... outlying countries ...


What on earth is an "outlying country"?
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Argofoto



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:

What are your future/long-term expectations in regard to TESOL?


Sorry for the slow response.

I'm not at all certain of the future, but I would want to progress to being a university teacher or a teacher in a "higher-quality" school (i.e. not a mickey mouse outfit). I imagine bouncing around a few one-year contracts until I find the right place where I feel I am (mostly) my own boss and have room to advance.


A second idea was to save money to start a small school or a combo cafe/community center but this really is just an idea.


For the first idea, I would have to take a Master's (sights set on MA ESL at San German, Puerto Rico as it is really inexpensive plus would gain fluency in Spanish) and then a teaching license (fairly easy to do in Florida).

Maybe it's a bit far but my BA is non-teaching related and I don't think tutoring experience counts for much even if its been for 6 years.


The second idea is really a pipe dream but you never whom you might meet and end up collaborating with.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11448
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argofoto wrote:
nomad soul wrote:

What are your future/long-term expectations in regard to TESOL?

I'm not at all certain of the future, but I would want to progress to being a university teacher or a teacher in a "higher-quality" school (i.e. not a mickey mouse outfit).

For the first idea, I would have to take a Master's (sights set on MA ESL at San German, Puerto Rico as it is really inexpensive plus would gain fluency in Spanish) and then a teaching license (fairly easy to do in Florida).

You didn't mention where you expect to teach, but be aware that the better private/international schools generally want to see a year or two of experience gained in a school in your home country (the US, in your case).

BTW, you might start your own separate thread in the newbie forum to avoid getting mixed in with the comments in this discussion.
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RedLightning



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 133
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argofoto wrote:


I'm not at all certain of the future, but I would want to progress to being a university teacher...

For the first idea, I would have to take a Master's (sights set on MA ESL at San German, Puerto Rico as it is really inexpensive plus would gain fluency in Spanish)


Your foreign MA is going to be a major problem if you’re hoping to work at the university level. As it is, foreign-born faculty (professors) need to prove the university they attended is indeed on par with American institutions. Many times, these applicants are given the benefit of the doubt; you won’t be. HR(let alone the actual job department you’re applying to) is going to wonder why an American citizen went to Puerto Rico to complete a masters and now wants to come back- “it’s too expensive in the states” won’t cut it.
I hope all goes well for you, but in trying not to waste time or money, you may have end up doing just that
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11448
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedLightning wrote:
Your foreign MA is going to be a major problem if you’re hoping to work at the university level. As it is, foreign-born faculty (professors) need to prove the university they attended is indeed on par with American institutions.

Puerto Rico is a US Territory. Plus, the Inter American University of Puerto Rico is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education.
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RedLightning



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 133
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
RedLightning wrote:
Your foreign MA is going to be a major problem if you’re hoping to work at the university level. As it is, foreign-born faculty (professors) need to prove the university they attended is indeed on par with American institutions.

Puerto Rico is a US Territory. Plus, the Inter American University of Puerto Rico is accredited by the Middle States Commission on Higher Education.





Is the suggestion here that the Inter American University of Puerto Rico is on par with Princeton because they both find accreditation through the Middle States Commission on Higher Education, or that the former is superior to the unlisted/unaccredited Oxford? In any case, I'm speaking to a bias that most definitely exists within American academia- this from my own experience in several hiring committees.
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Argofoto



Joined: 28 Aug 2012
Posts: 61
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For sure it's not Princeton and no-one is saying that AFAIK, but in regards to the diploma it will marked as a degree earned in the USA and for applying to work in foreign schools I don't think it will make much difference with other, let's say generic, US or "insert native speaking English country" degree. Otherwise yes, it might not be worth it.
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worldtraveller



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 26
Location: world

PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject: What about ONLINE teaching as an option? Reply with quote

Online teaching wasn't available 20 and 25 years ago. How profitable is that as an option or alternative?
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