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8,500 SAR or 2,260 $ for a University teaching job?!
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I would take this job if:
I was a muslim I was broke and I wanted to learn the Koran in Arabic
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
It was the last job I could find and the fry guy position was already filled
33%
 33%  [ 3 ]
It paid 2000 dollars more
11%
 11%  [ 1 ]
It paid 3000 dollars more
44%
 44%  [ 4 ]
I could keep my passport and could ditch the job after 1 paycheck and I had eaten all the Arab yogurt I could stomach
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 9

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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Sol wrote:
I think you are missing the point. Pay in the Middle East is not much to do with your experience or qualifications. It is compensation for the amount of crap that you will have to put up with.

"Crap" is subjective. The Kingdom isn't everyone's cup of tea. The Saudis don't base pay on foreign teachers' perceived stressors or cultural challenges.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
Northern Sol wrote:
I think you are missing the point. Pay in the Middle East is not much to do with your experience or qualifications. It is compensation for the amount of crap that you will have to put up with.

"Crap" is subjective. The Kingdom isn't everyone's cup of tea.


Well, how about putting it a different way:

Who on this board actually went to KSA for cultural/linguistic reasons? There are people who go to Japan or France for this and therefore might accept average salaries.

I've never worked in KSA but was always under the impression if the salaries weren't good (e.g. a western europe TEFL standard) that only a very very very small minority of native speakers would set foot in the place.

nomad soul wrote:
The Saudis don't base pay on foreign teachers' perceived stressors or cultural challenges.


I really don't see your point. They have a high(er) salary to attract teachers; however, if they had rich culture like other countries, then clearly salary would be lower by using the laws of demand and supply. I am sure everyone is aware of this.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
Who on this board actually went to KSA for cultural/linguistic reasons? There are people who go to Japan or France for this and therefore might accept average salaries.

I've never worked in KSA but was always under the impression if the salaries weren't good (e.g. a western europe TEFL standard) that only a very very very small minority of native speakers would set foot in the place.

This argument always crops up. KSA is a diverse country and attracts expats from just about every corner of the world. Not everyone who teaches is from the "West" nor are they all non-Muslim. People head to Saudia for various personal reasons. For example, I worked alongside American, British and Canadian women who were married to Saudis. Others want to experience a different culture and/or immerse themselves in Arabic. And yes, there are those who come for financial reasons. But you can't paint everyone's motivations with one brush.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
The Saudis don't base pay on foreign teachers' perceived stressors or cultural challenges.

I really don't see your point. They have a high(er) salary to attract teachers; however, if they had rich culture like other countries, then clearly salary would be lower by using the laws of demand and supply. I am sure everyone is aware of this.

"Rich culture" is subjective. Again, see my previous post.

There has always been the argument that Saudi Arabia should pay top money mainly because some western expats have to go without legal booze, dating, cohabitation, pork, etc. Sympathy pay for a westerner's perceived hardship? Not hardly. If that were the case, in theory, single women should get paid more than their male counterparts since females have more restrictions placed on them than men. Shocked

Salaries are based on qualifications and business needs and do not factor in compensation for giving up a hedonistic lifestyle. Moreover, a lot of teaching roles are filled via contracting companies -- for-profit businesses/middlemen -- which bill the universities/colleges, take their cut, and give the teachers X salary. This is why you might see varying salaries.
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In the heat of the moment



Joined: 22 May 2015
Posts: 391
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
"Rich culture" is subjective. Again, see my previous post.

There has always been the argument that Saudi Arabia should pay top money mainly because some western expats have to go without legal booze, dating, cohabitation, pork, etc. Sympathy pay for a westerner's perceived hardship? Not hardly. If that were the case, in theory, single women should get paid more than their male counterparts since females have more restrictions placed on them than men. Shocked

Salaries are based on qualifications and business needs and do not factor in compensation for giving up a hedonistic lifestyle. Moreover, a lot of teaching roles are filled via contracting companies -- for-profit businesses/middlemen -- which bill the universities/colleges, take their cut, and give the teachers X salary. This is why you might see varying salaries.


Add to your list lots of other activities and consumer goods, the scarcity of things to do and consume to keep yourself happy is pretty drastic in Saudi. Even when something is legal/allowed the choices were pretty terrible. I viewed my salary as a generous base for just living in the country, topped off with a generous sum to teach university-aged Saudi men. From speaking to teachers on the female side of the university, I and my colleagues had a much more difficult time doing our jobs in the classroom.

I think saying the business needs of recruiting teachers don't take into account the lifestyle is incorrect, IME the better the lifestyle the lower the salary in 95% of job offers. I don't mean every university will approach the pay scale this way, but they do have to pay more (if the living conditions are worse) to attract employees than somewhere which is pleasant to live in.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who can seriously for one second claim that if salaries in the ME were as bad as France, Spain, Japan etc that they'd have enough teachers? Apologists maybe.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
Who can seriously for one second claim that if salaries in the ME were as bad as France, Spain, Japan etc that they'd have enough teachers? Apologists maybe.

Compared to the countries you mentioned, would those low, tax-free Saudi salaries you're thinking of be exclusive of the employer-provided housing or monthly housing allowance, monthly transportation allowance, flights to/from, paid holidays, and health insurance?
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dragonpiwo



Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 1636
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:05 am    Post subject: hmm Reply with quote

I've worked in Arabic speaking countries for 20 years. The vast majority of teachers I've met here do it for the money, with the exception of the UAE, where life is good/great.

When I was in Saudi, there were 4 Asian Brits who were there for religious reasons.

The pay in Saudi looks dire now. Aramco is the only gig in town even as a contractor. Forget the madness of BAe.

$7-8k should be a minimum.
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
yurii wrote:
Who can seriously for one second claim that if salaries in the ME were as bad as France, Spain, Japan etc that they'd have enough teachers? Apologists maybe.

Compared to the countries you mentioned, would those low, tax-free Saudi salaries you're thinking of be exclusive of the employer-provided housing or monthly housing allowance, monthly transportation allowance, flights to/from, paid holidays, and health insurance?


I'm talking in general about the whole package.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11451
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yurii wrote:
nomad soul wrote:
yurii wrote:
Who can seriously for one second claim that if salaries in the ME were as bad as France, Spain, Japan etc that they'd have enough teachers? Apologists maybe.

Compared to the countries you mentioned, would those low, tax-free Saudi salaries you're thinking of be exclusive of the employer-provided housing or monthly housing allowance, monthly transportation allowance, flights to/from, paid holidays, and health insurance?

I'm talking in general about the whole package.

It's highly unlikely the countries you listed provide a similar tax-free salary & benefit package as standard for all teachers. Plus, KSA has a lower cost of living. Regardless, you still seem to think of teachers in KSA as sharing the same backgrounds, culture, values, religion and motivations. Again, that's not the case. So, no, I doubt there would be an issue filling TESOL roles because of a lukewarm salary and benefit package.

You can only speak for yourself. If KSA is a destination you find distasteful and would only consider if offered X amount of money, then...
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yurii



Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nomad soul wrote:
It's highly unlikely the countries you listed provide a similar tax-free salary & benefit package as standard for all teachers.


The way you worded your original text was very confusing (to me at least) as to the point you were making, so there has been a misunderstanding on what you were asking. I never claimed those countries provide a similar package, generally speaking. It would have been idiotic to suggest such a thing, especially based on what I previously stated. Quite clearly, Spain, France, Japan generally speaking have worse TEFL packages.
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