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I am 59 and recruiters are contacting me.

 
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hobartwells



Joined: 29 Jun 2017
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:19 pm    Post subject: I am 59 and recruiters are contacting me. Reply with quote

I am 59, US citizen, have an MA in TESL, and I am getting contacted by Chinese recruiters offering to get me a job. They are asking me to submit a video. They are also asking me to get my police clearances and my diplomas certified etc.

Knowing that it is impossible to get a visa to work in China after 60 and I am going to be 60 in April, I wonder what they are on about. Don't they know the rules?

Should I spent 100's of dollars on all these notarizations and certifications and police clearances?
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Simon in Suzhou



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 399
Location: GZ

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not impossible. It's nearly impossible in SOME places like Guangzhou, but there are MANY places where there are exceptions in place to this rule. Lots of teachers in 2nd and 3rd tier cities teaching after 60. However, If I were you, I would communicate clearly with the school, not just a recruiter, before getting all these things.
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wuliuchiba



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have recently changed the rules in Shandong: this year the age limit has been extended from 60 to 70. I found this out the other day when the recruiter for the company I currently work at was talking about trying to recruit more foreign teachers for next year. Some other provinces may also be changing the rules for next year.

There is currently a shortage of foreign English teachers in China right now because in the past few years China has gone to ridiculous lengths to tighten their requirements and make getting a work visa an incredible pain in the a*s. Fewer and fewer people are willing to jump through all the BS hoops and wait for months just to work in China legally. The waiving of the age limit in some provinces is an obvious backlash to the central government's excessive regulations.
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hobartwells



Joined: 29 Jun 2017
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But I've been told that the Embassy will not issue the visa past 60. How can a province influence this?
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wuliuchiba



Joined: 07 Jul 2013
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rules are set at the province level, not the federal level. Each province has different rules. You can get a visa easily in some provinces while it's very difficult to get in some other provinces.
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hobartwells



Joined: 29 Jun 2017
Posts: 41

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for this information. Did not know about this.
Plenty of wrong advice given.
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I have gone to a Chinese consulate to apply for the residence permit [Z visa], even when all of my papers have been in order, I have always been a little leery until it is all said and done and I have the residence permit [Z visa] freshly stuck into my passport.

It's the nature of the beast: until the end I don't know if they will give me the final approval or not. After all, they grant me the residence permit [Z visa], not the provinces, and they may say, "sorry, you're over 60, no residence permit [Z visa] for you".

It is my hope that this age restriction will be lifted in the future, but at the moment, I am not so convinced of a greater likelihood of gaining work permission after the age of 60, even in certain provinces. More and more job adverts that I have seen, and not fewer and fewer as in the past, have been stipulating this age restriction, some even stating that they don't want applicants over the age of 55.


Last edited by twowheel on Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:36 am; edited 4 times in total
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: I am 59 and recruiters are contacting me. Reply with quote

hobartwells wrote:
Knowing that it is impossible to get a visa to work in China after 60 and I am going to be 60 in April, I wonder what they are on about. Don't they know the rules?


...so, I would be especially leery of this situation. I would definitely triple-check with these recruiters to see what they are indeed on about. Things are too uncertain and not clear-cut at the moment to make unsure moves.

Warm regards,
twowheel
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eihpos



Joined: 14 Dec 2008
Posts: 321

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just going back to Simon in Suzhou - are you sure about Guangzhou being strict?

I ask as I queried about the 60 limit in directly with a school in Guangzhou just a few months ago and the "HR" told me we have no such rule in Guangzhou! Were they wrong? Possibly...
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doogsville



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

twowheel wrote:

It's the nature of the beast: until the end I don't know if they will give me the final approval or not. After all, they grant me the residence permit, not the provinces, and they may say, "sorry, you're over 60, no residence permit for you".


Sorry Twowheel, but this is not right. The consulate, which is by it's very nature is outside of China, cannot grant a resident permit, only a visa. For teachers this will be a Z visa. The consulate or embassy in whatever country you are in, can grant you a Z visa for a limited stay in China. During that stay, you, or rather your employer, then applies to the provincial, in fact the local, public Security Bureau, for a Foreign Experts Certificate, and a Resident Permit. The FAC should be given to you and the Resident Permit will be pasted into your passport.

Because Chinese laws and regulations are as flexible as a yoga teacher, this means that every office and official appears to be able to interpret them in whatever manner suits them. So while some places will enforce the age limit, others wont.

Edited to add. There is indeed a dearth of Native English teachers in China now. I work in Zhuhai and we are awash with Russian and Eastern European English speakers who are being snapped up at bargain rates because there are simply not enough native speakers to fill the jobs available. The hassle (and expense)of getting the paperwork far outweighs the hassle of living in China for many people now. Whether they are being issued FEC's and resident permits I know not, but they are getting jobs. I do know of at least one teacher who was denied a visa at age 60 and returned to Australia as a result, but I don't know if that's a Guangdong wide phenomena.
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twowheel



Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doogsville,

Ah! You got me. You are right. I should have known better.

I got my terminology wrong: first, visa (Z) to enter the country to begin work and then second, begin processing residence permit after entering country in Chinese "hometown" to then stay in country legally.

Thank you for pointing out my error and then clarifying it.

Warm regards,
twowheel
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Simon in Suzhou



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 399
Location: GZ

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eihpos wrote:
Just going back to Simon in Suzhou - are you sure about Guangzhou being strict?

I ask as I queried about the 60 limit in directly with a school in Guangzhou just a few months ago and the "HR" told me we have no such rule in Guangzhou! Were they wrong? Possibly...


In the last couple of years Guangzhou has been VERY strict about this rule for NEW hires (people 59+ getting turned down for residence permits). However I personally know several teachers in their 60's grandfathered in who are getting renewed every year at the same employer, as long as they don't try to change jobs. However, like ALL things in China, everything is flexible and fluid concerning the govt, especially if the school has connections. It is also possible the school is wrong, because there certainly IS this rule. Chinese employers tend to confidently know everything until they don't.
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Simon in Suzhou



Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 399
Location: GZ

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is also possible the rule has been relaxed in Guangzhou over the last year because of the pressure from schools who can't fill teaching positions. I don't know. And in China you can talk to 10 employers and get 10 different answers because no one really knows how things are enforced.

I worked at a university where a 59+ year old teacher tried to renew her contract and was denied a residence permit and sent home, while a 65 year old at the same school got his, supposedly because he had been teaching at the same school for 15+ years. OR the school simply lied to the 59 year old teacher and didn't want to renew her (Although I doubt this knowing the teacher and her relationship with the school). The point is, its hard to be sure of anything via words. But we can look at the samples we know of and how the rules are actually being enforced.

China = crapshoot
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isitts



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 192
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hobartwells wrote:
I am 59, US citizen, have an MA in TESL, and I am getting contacted by Chinese recruiters offering to get me a job.

You sound surprised. Aren’t they contacting you because you’ve applied to work in China?
hobartwells wrote:
Knowing that it is impossible to get a visa to work in China after 60 and I am going to be 60 in April, I wonder what they are on about. Don't they know the rules?

If you believe this to be true, then why are you applying? I’m confused. People on this thread and others like it have said it is possible to work past 60. Though, the other threads have suggested that it’s easier to do if you were in the country prior to turning 60. So, if you can get in before April…

Like Simon said earlier, make sure you clarify with the school that you’ll be ok. But even then, it’s really not the school’s call whether or not you get the residence permit.

The police check and degree authentication don’t cost “hundreds of dollars”. If you’re applying to work overseas anyway, it doesn’t set you back that much to at least try. If China didn’t work out, there are other countries not part of the Hague Convention that would accept your authenticated documents…provided your age wasn’t a problem.
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