Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Which countries could I legally teach in without a degree?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
shauntravels



Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 6:00 am    Post subject: Which countries could I legally teach in without a degree? Reply with quote

To everyone in the forum,

My ex-girlfriend has been an ESL teacher for a few years (in Korea and Canada). Through her, I was fortunate enough to be exposed to various factors and challenges of being an ESL teacher.

I am 22, originally from Florida; but I have also resided in California, Washington State, and Oregon. Over the past two years I've also lived in Australia (6 months), the Fiji Islands (6 months), and Canada (6 months). I am presently working as a trek leader in northern California, leading treks across America for Europeans. Last year I was a caregiver in Seattle and work well with kids. I am a good conversationalist and enjoy the cultural exchange of meeting new people and making new friends.

My hobbies and interests include: Hiking, music (I play a bit of guitar, drums, keyboards, and DJ), writing poetry, astronomy (especially star-gazing), photography, animals (dogs, cats, even kangaroos Very Happy), good laughs, cooking, sports, and of coarse traveling.

My inquiry here is basically for anyone who has information pertaining to countries which do not have a pre-requisite of a college degree to obtain work authorizartion. I graduated high school several years ago, however, I have not taken any college courses.

I have an open mind to consider anywhere in the world.

Cheers,

Shaun Smile
shaun@binity.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
richard ame



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Republic of Turkey

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 7:41 am    Post subject: No degree not much hope Reply with quote

Hi Shaun
Seems like you feel the need to trek a lot and staying in one place does not seem to interest you that much and I have to say that at 22 your experience of life or the lack of it is only eclipised by your total lack of teaching skill/ experience if I am to be totally honest with you there are jobs for you somewhere but teaching and doing it legally is not one of them ,there are enough people like you in this profession who do the rest of us a diservice ,come back when you have something worth selling.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 9:32 am    Post subject: Peking Duck Anyone? Reply with quote

Dear Shaun:

I am not an expert in this particular matter regarding teaching English without a degree, but I would suggest taking a close look at The People's Republic of China ... for one main reason: It is the largest EFL market in the world at the moment, and still growing.

In fact, China may be one of the few countries where the demand for native English speakers outstrips the supply ... and that would be good news for someone without a degree.

I would STRONGLY suggest that you invest 120 hours in a good TEFL certificate program, or possibly try some local volunteer teaching to 'get your feet wet' ... before you hop on a plane ... and into the classroom.

I'm sure you are aware that without a degree, (in any country) you may face less than ideal working conditions and perhaps a lower than average salary. If you can accept that, I'd say 'go for it'.

Good luck, Shaun Exclamation

kENt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
David Bowles



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely sure what Shaun said to deserve such a frankly abusive answer from Richard- maybe it was because he failed to write his entire message in one long full-stop-less ramble...
There are problems with teaching without a degree- I'm fairly sure that to work completely legally in China you do need one. However, China is one country where the laws are a little more 'flexible' and if your school knows the right people everything's usually OK. This would work best if you looked for jobs while travelling in the country, rather than trying in advance. I'm fairly sure there are other countries where you don't need a degree to work long-term/legally- check job requirements on internet adverts, the basics are usually the same for each country.
Have fun,
David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Celeste



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 814
Location: Fukuoka City, Japan

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that if you want to work in Taiwan, that it is possible to do so on a student visa. Many people sign up for Chinese classes to get the student visa, and then they use that visa to work as well. I have a relative working in Taiwan right now who doesn't have a degree. She seems fairly happy there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:55 am    Post subject: answers related to Japan Reply with quote

Shaun,

One thing that you (and others) need to realize is that it's not just the degree that is important. For example, in Japan, there are many people working without degrees, but it's the visa situation that differs, and part of that is reflected in nationality or other status.

1. Americans cannot get a working holiday visa. The WHV is available for people 18-30 years old from certain other countries, and you don't need a degree for this.

2. You can get a student visa without a degree, and you can work part-time.

3. You can also get a spouse visa if you marry a Japanese, and you can look for work with just this in hand. Of course, the lack of a degree makes it difficult to compete with people who do have one.

4. If you are married to a non-Japanese who has a full-time job in Japan, you can come on a dependent visa and work part-time. No degree required. (No promises on a job, either, for the same reasons as #3.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Shaun,

I live in China, have done so for several years. The advice offered by others would suffice to give you enough pointers except that no one has said that you do not have a RIGHT to earn your living here, you MUST EARN the respect of others in order to be given their hospitality.
I am trying to say that you should also COMMIT yourself rather than merely rying to get something from others for your "ability to hold a conversation in English" (paraphrasing you).
Are you prepared to live in a country that reveres proletarians and has adopted their lifestyle to a large extent? Will you stick it out in your job here even if all is not as promised? In other words: will you honour YOUR side of a contract even if circumstances are less than ideal?

Without adequate experience or training it will be more grinding than you imagine!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
wix



Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 250
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

please ignore the response of Mr Richard Ame.

If you don't have a degree it would be worthwhile taking the time to do a TEFL certificate so you have some sort of qualification in the eyes of potential employers. You sound like you have had some good life experience which would help prepare you for living and working in a foreign country, but this doesn't necessarily prepare you for teaching English (hence the TEFL certificate idea).

A couple of people have mentioned China. You might also look at Central and South America although I am not aware of the ins and outs of teaching there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: No degree not much hope Reply with quote

richard ame wrote:
Hi Shaun
Seems like you feel the need to trek a lot and staying in one place does not seem to interest you that much and I have to say that at 22 your experience of life or the lack of it is only eclipised by your total lack of teaching skill/ experience if I am to be totally honest with you there are jobs for you somewhere but teaching and doing it legally is not one of them ,there are enough people like you in this profession who do the rest of us a diservice ,come back when you have something worth selling.


Richard Ame - You are an idiot.

OP - Ignore the jack asses here at Dave's.

Thousands of teachers live and work in Asia teaching EFL without a degree.

Don't let the snobs get ya down.

You may try - Thailand/Taiwan/Korea/Japan/China/Indonesia

Good luck to you!

Yrs.
SP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gerard



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 581
Location: Internet Cafe

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Richard's response. There are 2 questions that seem to come up on every page on every board. 1) Where can I teach without qualifications? and 2) Where can I make the most money? At least here the person wants to be legal..

It is not too difficult to find this ifo. efl-law is one place. Job boards also help. One last thing -a working holiday visa does not allow you to teach at least in Korea. Not sure what line of work they expect you to do though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gsbcn08080



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 5:27 pm    Post subject: no degree needed in Spain Reply with quote

In Spain you don't need a degree to teach in a private school ( where most native teachers work) but some TEFL qualification and some experience will help you to get work quicker but it will all depend on how you present yourself and if you are able to teach English or not. There's 10 teachers at my school and only 2 of us have a University degree. The others no but they have been teaching for over 5 years and are really good at it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bnix



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 1:53 am    Post subject: Richard Ame and SP and the Rest of the "Gang" Reply with quote

Personally,I like Richard Ame's response.Richard Ame,scot 47 and I have been collectively verbally abused on other threads"Why don't you get OUT more"(blah...blah...blah).Well,Richard,I agree with you.And some of the others...well,the truth hurts,and it really hurts them,because they know you are right.

Anyway...I agree with Richard's response.SP we have a truce...and somehow I think you are probably a good teacher and well,.probably not a bad guy.But SP,just let me ask you...do you think calling anyone an "idiot'(on this forum or anywhere else) solves anything or helps make your point? Not fighting you understand...just curious.Another guy...goes by the moniker of M@tt(could it really be "doors" in disguise?) just got through calling me an "idiot" on another thread.Well,really I don't care...but SP, do you think it really solves anything?

Overall,most of the responses on this thread were very good.There are too many people who see TESOL as an"easy way out"...and they do not even want to bother with getting any qualifications...but i am not going to resurrect that one right now...it has been argued to death.. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
travellingscot



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 64
Location: UK/Eastern Europe

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject: Give some of us newbies a chance Reply with quote

As a newbie with no degree and a tesol certificate i am probably going to be the target of abuse before long,but as i have been reading the postings for almost a year,i try to watch what i submit.
Surely a permanent posting entitled something like"For those without a degree" would help stop the endless repeated questions which must annoy other newbies never mind the professional lifetime teachers.
It seems only fair that those who have studied for their teaching qualifications should get the best jobs,but as there does not appear to be enough of you to go round then what is wrong with people like myself making a career change and starting at the bottom?
I am in my 40's and do not consider myself to be a backpacker out to have a jolly time whilst travelling the world.
My tesol certificate will perhaps help me to get a job in Eastern Europe at first,then if i find i enjoy the job and am a capable and competent teacher i can think about getting higher qualifications in order to compete with those of you in more desirable locations or with better salaries.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
R



Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 277
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might I suggest moving the politics to the new thread in the general forum, and devoting this thread to answering the OP's question?

I'll be ducking now.

Rob.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Irish



Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 371

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaun:

Wix's suggestion about doing some sort of cert is excellent. You say that you've "been exposed" to different facets of ESL teaching (although what you're looking for is an EFL situation--but we'll save the technicalities for another time), but what does that mean? Have you observed her teaching, helped her plan lessons, what? I'm not trying to be harsh; I only want to point out that second-hand info simply isn't the same as first-hand experience. Even in countries that don't require a university degree for a work permit, this is important because you're competing with people who have certs or BAs and certs. What sets you apart? Why should you be hired over them? Again, this isn't meant to be harsh--it's simply the underlying question that we must all answer when applying for a job. Just because you are legally able to work somewhere doesn't mean that you will be able to find a job there.

Also, I'm curious--why do you want to do this? What do you hope to get out of it? Is there any particular area you'd like to work in? Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting your post, but it gives the impression that you'll go wherever you can legally work. But what if you hate everything about that place? Maybe we can give you better advice if you can tell us a little about what you want out of this experience.

Travellingscot wrote:

Quote:
Surely a permanent posting entitled something like"For those without a degree" would help stop the endless repeated questions which must annoy other newbies never mind the professional lifetime teachers.


Hm, maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, but I doubt it. Then the posts would begin with something like, "I just read the thingy about needing a degree for Country X but, like, I really want to go, and my sister's ex-boyfriend's cousin's roomate's uncle's best friend's former boss said he knew this guy who got a job there without a degree so I wanna do it too!" However, Glenski's working on something for the Japan forum that will (I think) cover this topic.

You shouldn't be abused for your post because you make a very good point about how we treat newbies. I think many of us (myself included) make certain assumptions when we see these posts. Perhaps we sometimes read too much into them and make responses that are out of line. I don't think we should abuse people or assume that they have ill intent (unless they demonstrate otherwise). We've all got to start somewhere, right? However, I also think that if we don't point out the potential problems with their choice, we are doing them a great disservice. They need the whole picture--good, bad, and indifferent--so that they can make an informed choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC