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Are degrees required in every asian country?

 
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Jared



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 319
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:20 pm    Post subject: Are degrees required in every asian country? Reply with quote

Hello. I just have some questions with reguards to education required in Asia. I heard a rumor that a degree is required to "Legally" work ONLY in Taiwan and Korea. I heard that everywhere else in Asia, you can get by with just a TESOL certificate/diploma. I also heard a rumor that a degree is required to teach in Asia period, however there are ways to get around that. If you take a course that guarantees you a job in asia afterwards or if you take a course that focuses on teaching english in asia, you can get away with out a diploma reguardless of where you go. How true are these rumors anyway? I'd appreciate any info you guys can give me. Thanks.
Jared
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just goes to show you that what you "hear" may not always be true. There is also some gray area involved.

Take Japan for example.

To legally work in Japan, you must have a proper visa. Which one may depend on your circumstances, and different ones allow different opportunities.

To get a work visa, you usually need a bachelor's degree (3 or 4 year plan, depending on your nationality). Rare cases come up when they permit a work visa to be offered when the individual can prove several years of related work experience. A work visa is specific for the duties you will perform (that is, only for a teacher, or only for an engineer, etc.).

Certain nationalities can be eligible for a working holiday visa, which does not require a degree. You must be a certain age, however, and prove you can support yourself with certain funds. Any type of work is allowed, except bar work. The WHV is only good for a year, once in your life. Taxes are different for people with WHV, too.

If you are married to a Japanese, you can get a spouse visa, which permits work in any field, as long as the employer is satisfied with your credentials. No degree is needed for the visa, but employers might want you to have one.

If you are married to a non-Japanese who has a FT job (and therefore a visa), you can get a dependent visa. This alone does not entitle you to work, but with some simple extra paperwork, you can request permission to work. It will only be for 20 hours a week, but it is in any field. No degree is needed, but like the spouse visa, you are subject to whatever requirements the employer has.

Student visas permit work, too, although only PT. You must be enrolled in a Japanese school to be eligible. No degree is needed.

Certifications like TESL or TESOL are not substitutes for degrees in Japan.

Quote:
If you take a course that guarantees you a job in asia afterwards

Stop right there. Any place that GUARANTEES you a job is lying. Beware of such outfits, especially if they say such a piece of paper will allow you to skirt immigration laws on visas. This was discussed on a thread at www.teachinginjapan.com for a particular outfit that made such claims, so if you are interested, read it for details on how slimy the guarantee is.
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sojourner



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 733
Location: nice, friendly, easy-going (ALL) Peoples' Republic of China

PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jared,

To teach (legally) in Sth Korea, a degree is necessary in order to be issued with the required (E2) visa.

It is possible, without a degree or TESOL certificate, to find work in China - although, probably not in Shanghai or Beijing. Without any such qualifications, you'll probably be able to find a job in a language school. (Refer to some of my most recent posts for my opinions regarding language schools). With a TESOL certificate, but no degree, you just MIGHT be able to find a job at one of the lowest ranking colleges and universities. With both a degree and a TESOL certificate, your chances of finding a 'reasonable job' (ie those in colleges,unis or state-run primary or secondary schools) would be greatly enhanced.

The recent influx of many unqualified people into China may eventually result in a situation in which employers will become far more choosy in their teacher selection criteria. So, get qualified ! The best high quality courses to do are those that are recognised by reputable employers around the world. I'm referring , of course, to CELTA and the Trinity College certificate.There may be other high quality courses - but they would not have the same sort of 'brand name' recognition that CELTA and Trinity happen to have. If CELTA training is too expensive in your home country, it can be done comparatively cheaper in Thailand. (Forget about doing an online course . They may provide you with with some useful ideas but, unlike CELTA or Trinity, they don't involve any actual teaching practice). Apart from regarding a TESOL certificate as merely a means of getting a job, you should see it as a way of helping you to survive in the classroom and, more importantly, of providing a good standard of teaching for your students.

You mentioned something about 'training course + job offer' package deals. Refer to Glenski's comments. Even if a particular package deal turns out to be legitimate, the sort of training you'd get may only be applicable to that school's particular teaching methodology and syllabus - and may not provide you with any transferrable skills. One possible exception,though, could be the training provided by the Boland Schools - I have heard some good reports about them. But, to be on the safe side ,you should consider enrolling only in a CELTA or Trinity course.

Apart from China, you might wish to consider Vietnam.There's one woman who regularly contributes to Dave's China forums, who prior to coming here, was working in Vietnam - and she neither has a degree or a TESOL certificate ! However, Vietnamese employers usually don't provide FTs with airfare reimbursement or free accommodation.

In conclusion, I strongly advise you to enrol in a CELTA or Trinity course. If you intend to teach for a number of years, I also urge you to get a degree - there are a number of reputable Australian universities that provide distance learning and online undergraduate programmes, should attending an on-campus course be difficult. In many countries, students expect teachers to be educated people - not merely experts in a narrow field, such as TESL methodology.

Good luck.

Peter
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jibbs



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All they have seen from me in Vietnam so far has been a resume. It could have been all invented. The white face and the clearly spoken English seemed to work. I'm not too sure how legal things are here. Elsewhere they wanted to see everything for a full-time job, but as a substitute for, say, a month, or if a school is desperate, they might just hire the first one who shows up to help save their business.
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laodeng



Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 481

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in China, of course, it seems that almost any old sheet of paper--particularly one with some Gothic lettering--is accepted as evidence of a "degree." I've never heard of a school's actually verifying the degree.
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dudesky



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Toronto Canada

PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just have a quick question and i wonder if someone out there can give me some guidance. I am a 21 year old canadian college graduate with an advanced diploma in paralegal studies. i also hold a certificate from the university of toronto in international languages. can i get a teaching job in asia with my credentials? am i restricted? also because of my age are there some barriers in my path? thanks so much for your potential response.
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jibbs



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 448

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are young and cute you will get work. Maybe not a place that cares so much about education as attracting parents and their kids. I knew of one 15 year old American girl teaching privates in Korea, not legal. Her father was at a university.
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dudesky



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Toronto Canada

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well first of all im a guy so im not sure how cute comes into play for me obtaining a job. what i meen is based on my age (21) and my education (associates degree and certificate in internation languages) would any country allow me to work legally?
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sojourner



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 733
Location: nice, friendly, easy-going (ALL) Peoples' Republic of China

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dudesky,

To teach legally in Sth Korea, an E2 visa is necessary - and to be eligible for such a visa you need an actual DEGREE, not a diploma.

For Japan, why don't you make some enquiries about the JET scheme? I'm not sure whether you actually need a degree in order to be eligible.

For China, you'd have no trouble in getting a job. Being both Nth American and quite young, you would probably be able to pick up a job at one of the major language school chains (eg 'Wall Street') in Shanghai. Most newbies appear very keen to find work in Shanghai - you might have a chance. If you are not too keen to work in a language school, or anywhere in Shanghai, you should be able to find a job at a college or university. Apart from the usual Oral English, your para-legal qualification should also help you to get you a job teaching Business English.

I'm a bit curious about your 'Certificate in Foreign Languages' - is it to do with the teaching of foreign languages ? If not, it might be a good idea for you to undergo some ESL teacher training before leaving home, eg CELTA.

Also, you should think about articulating your diploma into a degree. Having a degree will provide you with far more opportunities in the ESL world - and elsewhere.

Good luck.

Peter
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For Japan, why don't you make some enquiries about the JET scheme? I'm not sure whether you actually need a degree in order to be eligible.


The JET Programme (not scheme) is for people with bachelor's degrees.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 8917
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sojourner wrote:
Jared,

One possible exception,though, could be the training provided by the Boland Schools - I have heard some good reports about them. But, to be on the safe side ,you should consider enrolling only in a CELTA or Trinity course.

Peter


I second that, BOland is a good course!
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