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how bad must SARS be before you'll leave beautiful formosa?
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A motif in Trinity's writing is the use of the term "mature." Anyone who is not him, or doesn't agree with him, is automatically immature. Talk about a classical ad hominen attack... In defence of the rest of us, let me say that it is not I, or most other users of this forum, who display disproportionate and innapropriate amounts of rage and anger on a public forum and then try to order others to behave appropriately (often in the same post). It is not the rest of us who belittle and mock others' posts (and frequently other users) on this forum. It is not we, the unwashed and uneducated, who make wild and unsubstantiated claims such as sars being a form of bioterrorism, while calling others deluded and claiming they live in denial. It is not the rest of us who have written in the past that all ethnically chinese societies are uncivilized (in those terms exactly) and then lay claim to being pro-Chinese. Finally, it is not us who have been banned from other esl sites (or any internet site for that matter). If you want others to behave "maturely," as you put it, please clearly demonstrate how that is done. We'll all follow your example from now on.
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TheyCallMeTrinity



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Taiwan, at the moment

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:30 pm    Post subject: What? Reply with quote

TaoyuanSteve wrote:
A motif in Trinity's writing is the use of the term "mature." Anyone who is not him, or doesn't agree with him, is automatically immature.


This coming from someone who appointshimself a defacto spokesman for the forum. One who goes out of his way to slam someone and liable them as "Anti-Chinese" and can't diferentiate criticism of a culture's poor behavior and the race of people. be careful when you pint fingers, Steve as they point back at you.


Talk about a classical ad hominen attack...

indeed. Your current post proves it. Also, aren't you NOT talking to me? This contradicts your posting.What is is going to be - by the way you came and atacked me on this thread. Who started the argument? I stand by my "mature' statemetns - including the fact this is the SECOND time youv'e attacked me on tehforum. The othr was deleted. the one regarding "never mention my name." Very much schooyard behavior too.


In defence of the rest of us, let me say that it is not I, or most other users of this forum, who display disproportionate and innapropriate amounts of rage and anger on a public forum and then try to order others to behave appropriately (often in the same post).

I can speak for myself, and couldGUESS that otehrs would agree (if the ycared) but you DO NOT represent this forum. Got that? You represent yourself. there is a trend in your posts to be the "authority" about things here,and how long have you been ehre, Steve? Less than a year? I've been here afew yearsbub - and seen the island far and wide. It doesn't make me an expert, but it certainly gives me EXPERIENCE to back up my opinions. You simply dont' agree with them. Yo ualso mistake cutting social commentary with "anger." You're the one displaying anger. Again - that finger pointing points back at you.

It is not the rest of us who belittle and mock others' posts (and frequently other users) on this forum.


Again - it's that cult of personality you give yourself by claiming 'we." yo uare alone in this argument an your actions and only represent yourself, so please come down to earth and deal with this maturely. Again, you came ont othis thread and attacked me. You did the same on another thread. Actually, I recall an occasion BEFORE THAT. You went off calling people racists. that's anger. that's trying to control people. that's hypocricy. You seem a bit unable to examine your own mistakes before pointing out others' mistakes. Interesting.



It is not we, the unwashed and uneducated, who make wild and unsubstantiated claims such as sars being a form of bioterrorism, while calling others deluded and claiming they live in denial.

Excuse me? What do you mean by "unwashed and uneducatd?" I never use those words in any post. I did refer to REAL INCIDENTS I WITNESSED. If youdare to call this island higly sanitary then I can prove you wrong without giving a lot of effort. the environment speaks for itself, as does the rapid rise in infection and the government's own words abotu people having to improve their hygeine. So, don't put words in my proverbial mouth and take things out of context. You are jumping to conclusions and they are very, very liablous.

I stated my GUT FEELING that it was bioterrorism. Others have felt the same thing and it was in teh press - BUT - I NEVER claimed it as FACT, Again, I hope your reading skills are better than what you display, since you are a teacher. I shudder to think what your students glean from your reading comprehension.


It is not the rest of us who have written in the past that all ethnically chinese societies are uncivilized (in those terms exactly)


Not those words EXACTLY. Prove this please. I've said it certainly seems that way. I did say ehtnically run societies. It's an OPINION and I backed it up with details. If you dont' agree -fine, but you went off and started name calling. that's the "racist' thread I recall: the first time you went about attacking people. It had to do with the 36 strategies of Lao Tzu. You refered to Sunpower (I think), Okami and my assertions as being 'racist garbage" (EXAC WORDS).

So, let's look back at the posting history, Steve - and I think you'll find a proverbial foot in your mouth.

Your appology will be accepted.

and then lay claim to being pro-Chinese.

Again - YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE. I simply stated I am NOT ANTI-CHINESE> I'm not. I judge a person for their individual traits - but I also judge a society and its government based on its behaviour. Somehow you've crosswed wires, misread things, gotten your feathers rufled and the nattacked. You shoul take a breather before responding, because you come out and attack me: all of the time. It's like you're stalking me on this forum. if you disagree about my opinions: FINE. Say your piece, but you are the one who's attacking me - buddy.



Finally, it is not us who have been banned from other esl sites (or any internet site for that matter).


What are you talking about? I post here and on Forumosa and Teali, and a few otehr sites. I've never been banned. Again, this is a groundless, liabolous - and out of left field - insult.


If you want others to behave "maturely," as you put it, please clearly demonstrate how that is done. We'll all follow your example from now on.


I agree, Steve, so pelase put that into PRACTICE. You certainly haven't and you've contradicted yourself yet again.

I don't seek to sling mud and I'ld like this argument to end. I am entitled to my opinions and you are to yours - and we have the right to disagree, but YOU don't have the right to liable me and make threats or to harass me because my EXPERIENCES and OBSERVATIONS about Taiwan don't match your white-washed, politically correct view of things.

When you are ready to appologize I'll gladly accept it.

I hope the moderators allow this post because I want this saga to end. Do like Egas and see that men can argue but walk away without going to war. I'm just tired of you coming out of the woodwork to slam me. You want to counter my opinions - do so, but I'm tired of your liablous attacks.
You make things personal and it's scary. This is a forum: let's keep it open.

Trinity
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TheyCallMeTrinity



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Taiwan, at the moment

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunpower wrote:
[

My thoughts exactly.

Well put!

And like I said about AIDS on the other thread - Not too much reporting about the millions that will die of that disease this year.



"Moonpower," seems appropriate, since you fail to realize the following:


SARS emerged less than a year ago and it death and infection rate grows rapidly. Unlike AIDS - which requires direct blood/body fluid contact to bring about infection, SARS requires a SNEEZE, COUGH, or the obvious AIDS-like way of communicating the disease.

You belittle the victimsof AIDS AND SARS with such a cavalier attitude.

The people in "Denial" here about this young disese seem to lack the simple concept of the dignity of human life, and its fragility.

I find this inhuman, arrogant and repulsive.

Congrats though - you are behaving JUST LIKE the governments of China and Taiwan. You can pull the covers over your eyes little boys and hope the boogeyman doesn't get you because you can't see him: but hope that "it" doesn't.


I doubt either of you youg 'uns would like an extended stay in a SARS ward uder an incompetent government and an increasingly rworried state of "medical professionalism" on the island.


"Denial" is NOT a river in Egypt, but a form of abalienation (i .e. mental and physical decay).


Please grow up, respect the dead - and most importantly respect life.
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Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2003 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You aren't angry, are you?
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Trinity is angry...still! Embarassed I would like people to check all past threads on this site to see if I've ever "harrassed" or "threatened" Trinity. He seems to think I have. I guess anyone who opposes his negativity (have you ever written anything kind or helpful on this forum or any other?) is threatening him. Trinity, your right to freedom of speech necessarily ends when what you say is deliberately hurtful to others, as a lot of your posts have been. And, yes, I will continue to dispute and otherwise refute your more insulting posts, especially when you resort to name-calling. Ah yes, ad hominens... a prime example is when you refer to the user "sunpower" as "moonpower." This is exactly what I've been talking about; and other examples like it occur frequently in your posts. Your name-calling shows you are unwilling or incapable of engaging Sunpower's ideas intellectually. Don't get me wrong, I fully support peoples' right to disagree. Isn't that what our little argument is all about? I disagree with many users on this forum quite frequently. The difference, however, is in their methods (I would say maturity). It is one thing to disagree, quite another to insult. Most do not resort to your methods. Look around. People can and do disagree without the rage filled messages you always resort to (and I'm sure you'll write another in response to this). I'm not sure where all this rage is coming from, though my goal in engaging you is to get it to stop appearing on this forum. Trinity, I sincerely hope things get better for you. That isn't a stab at you, though you'll probably take it as one. You've been tired of this place (Taiwan) for some time and you've told me that you are frequently ripped off. Hopefully, when you leave things will improve and you won't need to verbally assault strangers on internet sites anymore. Call me "white-washed" (ironic, considering the mud slinging in that statement has left me filthy) and "politically correct" (more name-calling) but have a nice day anyway. Smile
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TheyCallMeTrinity



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 44
Location: Taiwan, at the moment

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2003 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are a textbook case of hypocrate, aren't you, Steve?

Anyway, don't throwing rocks in glass houses.

As you've proven: the pot calls a kettle "black."

Waiting for your apology - oh and talk directly to me and don't play o an imaginary peanut gallery, since most people aren't readin this thread, save those participating in it.


Mature and waiting for you to catch up,

Trinity
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Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the face of rising anxiety, Taiwan kicked off a campaign this week to demystify the new respiratory disease.

"Please live your lives normally," Lee Ying-yuan, an advisor to the government's SARS committee, told a news conference. "Since it is not transmitted by air, there is no need to panic."


- Anxiety
- Fear
- Witch Hunt
- Panic
- Myths

Quote:
Taiwan's extreme SARS measures feed public fear

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Tiffany Wu

TAIPEI, May 22 (Reuters) - Judy Li takes her temperature every two hours, chants Buddhist sutras and wolfs down as many lemons, pineapples and vinegar drinks as her stomach can take.

Since developing a fever a week ago, the Taiwan magazine editor has seen her doctor three times, only to be told each time she has flu and not Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS).

"I can't help but be terrified, especially when I go to the hospital and see all these people wearing masks and standing far away from one another," she says.

Apart from the fever, which subsided, Li, in her late 40s, had no other SARS-like symptoms, but she lives in fear of the virus.

A survey by the United Daily paper suggests 73 percent of Taiwanese share her fear. Worries about communal transmission have made mask-wearing mandatory in many public areas even though over 90 percent of Taiwan's 483 cases are hospital infections.

Some doctors blame the government for the growing panic, saying Taiwan's draconian anti-SARS measures have fuelled hysteria and undermined attempts to control the disease.

For example, Taipei Mayor Ma Ying-jeou proposed an automatic three-day quarantine for anyone with a fever. The Department of Health banned drugstores from selling anti-fever pills to force possible SARS sufferers to go to see doctors.

"Health officials have misled people with their extreme moves," said Ruey Lin, an epidemiology expert at National Taiwan University's Public Health Department. "They need to give proper information so people know communal infection risk is very low."

COMMUTER GRIDLOCK

A frightened public makes it hard for Taiwan to control SARS.

Some people hoard surgical masks leading to a shortage for medical workers, while others hide their possible exposure to SARS patients in medical histories -- afraid of becoming social outcasts.

In the face of rising anxiety, Taiwan kicked off a campaign this week to demystify the new respiratory disease.

"Please live your lives normally," Lee Ying-yuan, an advisor to the government's SARS committee, told a news conference. "Since it is not transmitted by air, there is no need to panic."

But the damage is hard to undo.

Consumers refuse to venture out to shops or restaurants, choking the economy. One family even plugged an electric fan outside their door to prevent germs from entering.

Taipei roads have been gridlocked by 7 a.m. since a government order to mask all subway and train passengers made commuters wary of public transport.

Although Taiwan reported a record daily rise in probable SARS cases of 65 on Thursday, doctors say the virus has only killed 60 people on the island -- making it less of a killer than tuberculosis or car accidents.

Tuberculosis, spread through sneezes or saliva, infects 15,000 people every year in Taiwan and kills 1,500 of them.

In the first three months of this year, car accidents killed 680 people and injured 35,000.

Neither scourge has had the same impact on public behaviour as SARS.

Official statistics show that in April, 14,600 Taiwanese were sanctioned for refusing to wear seatbelts, 48,300 for riding motorcycles without helmets and 7,000 for drunken driving.
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Joe Thanks



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Posts: 25
Location: Asia

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 10:45 pm    Post subject: Ignore trolls Reply with quote

Trinity,

Ignore these trolls. As an outsider it's pretty clear that they are taunting you and that could possibly lead to you getting banned from the forum. It is clear that this is Steve's goal. This Steve guy is obviously targeting you and using Sunpower and Eggas to hide behind when you come back at him. He thinks he's the good guy in all this but really instigates things. You have nothing to prove, so stick to your guns and let the insect buzz about. As kids we'd ignore weasels like this. I strongly recommend that you do this. Your points have not fallen on blind eyes. There are a lot of lurkers who agree with the points you have raised and some of us are prepping for a serious plea to western media to expose SARS-related injustices here. Private message me if you want more details. You're simply wasting your time with the people who, as you say, are in "denial"; which they are. They've dug their own graves, so come and join those of us who want to improve things here rather than ignore the injustices. As the MC5 said, "You're either part of the problem or part of the solution. It takes five seconds to testify." We could use some of your energy and knowledge, brother (sister?).
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taiwan boy



Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 99
Location: China

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article from today's Taipei Times is about a possible teacher shortage because of SARS. I think if you read the whole article you can come to the conclusion that any shortage of teachers will probably be small.

Language schools may suffer teacher shortage over SARS
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