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The Chinese Protests
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organix



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
Location: Shenzhen, China

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: The Chinese Protests Reply with quote

Im curious how Japan is reacting to the events that are happening in China right now. Im a foreign teacher in Shenzhen, so I can witness it firsthand. I did miss the 10,000 strong protest in SZ yesterday as I was in Hong Kong, but I was brought to the front lines in class today, which was "you are the teacher" day. One of my students launched into a tirade of why Japan should not be able to join the UN. I doubt she even knows the purpose of the UN. Another student "taught" the class how to draw a Japanese person (it came out looking like a fat turtle) The level of hatred for Japanese is intense. I hadnt really noticed it until now.

So how are the Japanese people and particularly the students reacting to the events that are happening right now in China? Whats the general public opinion and perception of Chinese people and of the whole textbook issue?
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful about turning this into a political, instead of teaching, thread.

I would say that to get an idea of how the general public thinks, you should read online The Japan Times or some other newspaper. In my high school, the topic just doesn't come up. Kids are just starting school, so they have things more urgent and closer to home on their minds right now.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: The Chinese Protests Reply with quote

organix wrote:
So how are the Japanese people and particularly the students reacting to the events that are happening right now in China? Whats the general public opinion and perception of Chinese people and of the whole textbook issue?


I'm not sure the students (at least in Junior High School) even know about it. As Glenski said, it's the beginning of the school year and so they are busy, but a lot of them cannot actually get through a newspaper article in their own language anyway. ANd it's not like it'S the type of thing that the Principal is going to tell them in the "Welcome to our School" speech.

I get uncomfortable enough in English class with the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing classes (and I'm Canadian) when the teachers turn to me and say "We in Japan learn that Japan was basically the victim in WWII. How about Canada? What do you learn about the atomic bombing of Japan during WWII in Canada?" without the China issue being raised (and don't forget, there's also the Korea issue back in the news here too, both with the textbooks and the islands, or islettes Question I'm not sure which).
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Cshannon



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Be careful about turning this into a political, instead of teaching, thread.


Right... anyway considering there`s another current thread about racism in Japan running for like 9 pages, I don`t think we can really tell this guy to stick strictly to "teaching only" threads.
I think it`s still relevant, and even more so considering the protests are about Japanese school textbooks being glossed over etc. I personally would like to hear what everyone has to say about this issue, if they so choose. No need to censor a perfectly good thread.
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Gordon



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not something I'll bring up in my university classes either. It is the beginning of the school year and first impressions are vital. I would like to talk to a few students outside of the classroom and ask as I too am curious. This is a good topic though. My guess is they will say: China is bad, Japan is the victim. Why do they hate us. I do feel sorry for the Chinese living in Japan, wouldn't be surprised if they get victimized here, sort of a reciprocal agreement.
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Travel Zen



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The feelings of hatred are intense in China. I know two japanese women who felt threatened physically by all this. One quit her job and left China some time ago.

Having first-hand experience in China, i would easily say that the government fosters this hatred in many ways.

On thelevision just last week tv shows of 'the hated' japanese killing and looting. Chinese actors dressed in japanese army garb overdoing the blood and guts, chinese patriots rallying their people to hate the oppressors.

Images of Japan, women in kimonos and such, being hit and spat on by chinese men. Stupid, hateful things that I see on tv.


There's going to be war in Asia soon enough.
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organix



Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 149
Location: Shenzhen, China

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are all adults here and this topic as stated above does fit within the parameters of the forum. i just want to know what the kids in your classes think about china/chinese. i have first hand experience in chinese classrooms, but not in japanese classrooms, so im curious for the sake of comparison. the fact that its the beginning of the school year is noted. i teach J3 and S1 so perhaps my kids are a bit older and more informed than yours. but any bit of information, however small, in response to my orginal question would be appreciated. thanks.

Last edited by organix on Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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guest of Japan



Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on Glenski, the ban on politics was on the general forum. This is a regional difficulty that has the possibility to truly effect the lives of us living in Japan and those living in China.

When the riots were on the news the other night my wife said to me, "They hate us." To which I could only reply "yes."

The way I see it, the Chinese government has a whole lot of problems ready to boil over. It's directing the anger of the Chinese citizenry toward an outside antogonist.

If I were a high powered Japanese government official (and problably it's lucky for Japan I'm not) I'd propose a full scale trade ban on China. The Chinese government would quickly change tack.
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AndyH



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regimes which are corrupt, incompetent, or disrespectful of civil liberties often try to wind their people up against other countries, to divert attention away from their own shortcomings.
China is a good example.
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gt37



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Osaka

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

America too!
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guest of Japan wrote:
The way I see it, the Chinese government has a whole lot of problems ready to boil over. It's directing the anger of the Chinese citizenry toward an outside antogonist.

If I were a high powered Japanese government official (and problably it's lucky for Japan I'm not) I'd propose a full scale trade ban on China. The Chinese government would quickly change tack.


Making Japan the victim as usual.

remember its not China that is censoring school textbooks its JAPAN. Deja vu all over again. You have to consider why the Chinese are protesting in the first place.

I thought it was ironic that the Foreign Minister got the Chinese foreign Minister to apologise and fall on his sword for people throwing rocks at the embassy though.
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AndyH



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are being sarcastic, right Paul?
China isn't censoring textbooks? Maybe only because they don't have to, as no historians or teachers would even DARE tell kids about the 1989 Tienannmen Square massacres or their government's conduct in Tibet!
Rather than censoring textbooks, the Japanese government merely APPROVED a book which had apparently sugar-coated some of the darker elements of Japanese history. From what I've read, most of the textbooks which were approved for school use were more forthright in covering Japan's crimes. True, they don't shove it down kids' throats, but I wasn't force-fed stories about Wounded Knee, lynchings in the Amercian South, and the CIA's activities in Iran, Chile, and Guatemala, either!
And yes, the USA, especially under Georgie, is another great example of a government which demonizes other countries to focus public attention elsewhere!
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyH wrote:
You are being sarcastic, right Paul?
China isn't censoring textbooks? Maybe only because they don't have to, as no historians or teachers would even DARE tell kids about the 1989 Tienannmen Square massacres or their government's conduct in Tibet!
!


China does censor stuff, so do the Australian and the Americans but in the context of the present discussion its a red herring. The Chinese have a legitimate complaint about something the Japanese have done by sugarcoating their history (which you are saying is OK, though the Chinese here are no better) and someone is saying slap a ban on the Chinese for stepping out of line.

Anyway, if I may be so bold the issue is about what one country did to another during World War II and has not properly atoned for. The Tianmen thing bad as it was, was a government firing on its own citizens.
Governments have done that since time immemorial. New Zealand called out the riot police on citizens when Springboks came to New Zealand in 1981. Anyway thats beside the point.
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AndyH



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I DON'T think the Japanese government should have approved the textbook, or ANY text books which sugar coat their government's and army's conduct in and prior to WWII.
But I don't think these riots are really about a textbook. In my opinion, if it matters, "the textbook controversy" is merely the latest excuse by the Chinese government to stir up anti-Japanese feelings and divert peoples' attention from their own shortcomings, as well as embarrass Japan while they seek a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.
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PAULH



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndyH wrote:
Actually, I DON'T think the Japanese government should have approved the textbook, or ANY text books which sugar coat their government's and army's conduct in and prior to WWII.
But I don't think these riots are really about a textbook. In my opinion, if it matters, "the textbook controversy" is merely the latest excuse by the Chinese government to stir up anti-Japanese feelings and divert peoples' attention from their own shortcomings, as well as embarrass Japan while they seek a permanent seat on the UN Security Council.


You are forgetting the government in China is a communist dictatorship, ordinary people do not get the vote in China and the China peoples congress is simply a rubber stamp for the government. The media are simply mouthpieces for the Communist party and free speech does not exist in mainland China. You complain against the government and you get thrown in jail.

Political dissent is not allowed and there is no opposition party. People have no legal way of protesting against their own government, so yes you can say starting a riot is a way for Chinese people to let off steam with the government being the chief cheerleader.

.
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