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The Chinese Protests
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AndyH



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 417

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, China does not have the capability to launch a successful air/amphibious attack on Japan at this time. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces, as well as the US military, have a strong technological edge. However, China IS CLOSING THE GAP, and rapidly. For purely economic reasons, I don't believe it is in China's interests to risk a regional war, especially one which could involve the US, at this time. For the time being, they are likely to leave Japan, as well as Taiwan, alone.
What worries me more is what the situation will look like in five or ten years.
And regarding whether I discuss this with students, actually YES, I have on a couple of occasions! Mind you, these are adult professionals, and not children, and people who I've taught for a while and know a little bit about. Usually they want my opinion because I have 11 years of military experience and worked for the UN.
Captain Onigiri made a very good point about the fact that we are foreigners in this country, and while we are entitled to our opinions, we should be very careful about expressing them to our students, for the sake of professionalism.
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mandrake



Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's all and good that some people might choose to have this discussion with more adult students. However, it seems that most posters seem to be more intent on sharing their own personal views on the matter rather than addressing the topic of the thread....which I think has been forgotten some way back.

Anyone care to address this point and talk about their students views?

Yes, bloody histories are important as much as current events in world history. My thinking is that if you are going to teach or discuss one, then what about the rest of history? In this case, what are we teaching? History, Politics, or English?

Also, someone mentioned back that we are English teachers...so where does the recent discussion fit in with teaching? Are there some relevant points that could be addressed in class?

If there are, I can't see them. Please enlighten me.
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mandrake



Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a point for the original post. The textbooks referred to are, to my understanding, intended for use in junior high school. Now, as another poster mentioned:

Quote:
any teacher who is familiar with child development should know that students in their early to mid teens are only beginning to understand the concept of hypothetical. The kind of discussion we are having on this thread is really best left for college


Taken this into account, why is the subject even approached in junior high school textbooks? The chinese claim that certain parts of the textbook leave out critical incidents and also there is a debate over certain words and the textbooks.

I don't read sufficient Japanese to be able to pick up the nuances of words in textbooks. Perhaps, someone who has actually read them would care to comment on this point.

Out of curiosity, what do American, or indeed Chinese textbooks teach about their own histories? Is the Iraq war glossed over in foreign textbooks I wonder? Anybody, care to talk on that point?
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bshabu



Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 200
Location: Kumagaya

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Out of curiosity, what do American, or indeed Chinese textbooks teach about their own histories? Is the Iraq war glossed over in foreign textbooks I wonder? Anybody, care to talk on that point?


I think that is too recent of an event to be in History books. Most History Books in school are more then a couple of years old. I am sure it is talked about in class though.
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post

Last edited by stillnosheep on Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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stillnosheep



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2068
Location: eslcafe

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Japan's Education Ministry will only allow the use of 'approved' textbooks in the Japanese Public School system. To be approved these books have to give a very strange 'gloss' to incidents in Japanese history, especially those in which Japan doesn't come up smelling of roses. Recently they seem to have tightened up even more. China is engaging in sabre-rattling as it re-emerges as a regional economic powerhouse. Many informed Japanese are very worried about the long-term effects of a Chinese re-emergence as an economic superpower for an economically stagnant Japan that has long had a difficult and complex relationship with its much larger neighbour.

Comments that Japanese JHS students are too immature to be allowed to hear more of the truth just intensify the problem. Maturity will not be attained via the spoon-feeding of fairy-tales.

Japanese insecurities may not be totally misplaced: On being informed at my Japanese class by a visiting Chinese student studying how foriegners learn Japanese in Japan that it was that it was 'wrong' to learn Japanese via Romaji as the Japanese do not use it I replied that in so-and-so many years all the Japanese would be using it due to the influence of America. 'Ah' she replied, 'by then they will all [just] be using kanji due to the influence of China' before quickly adding 'because of population growth and so on..'.

Ultimately, as ever in a capitalist world system, economics will prevail. Posting on the 'evil' chinese communist system misses the point entirely. Capitalism Chinese style is doing rather well at the moment and the Japanese are getting a little worried about what might happen to them as they, and the US, are forced to come to terms with this. Interesting times.
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homersimpson



Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The U.S. military, although technologically superior to both North Korea and China, has been overextended recently. If either NK or China wanted to make a move, now would be the time. But, not unlike most puppet regimes, North Korea's true power lies in smoke and mirrors. What bombs it does possess, no one really knows for sure, but it's suspected NK doesn't have the means to adequately deliver its arsenal. China is very good at belly-aching, but when it comes to actual confrontation, it is all talk. Beijing keeps threatening Taiwan but does nothing. I'm pretty sure the Salvation Army could overtake Taiwan in a second. Sure, the U.S. has obligated itself to protect Taiwan if China were to invade, but as stated, at the moment, the U.S. logistically is not in a position to do so. Heck, Beijing can't even control Hong Kong, and it IS now a part of China. Attempts to crack down on some social liberties there have led to protests and Beijing cowering with its tail between its legs.
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guest of Japan



Joined: 28 Feb 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to take issue with the idea that Jr. High School students aren't cognitively developed enough to deal with complex issues. People usually reach the concrete cognitive development level by the time they are twelve.

However, they are extremely impressionable at this stage, though they often reject these forced values during their later teens as they begin fo form their own understandings.

In my very limited experience in teaching Jr. High history I have taught about the Holocaust, the rise of the German state under Hitler, the plight or the poor during the Great Depression and how the government responded and at other times failed to respond, and the relocation of Japanese Americans. Provided that pace and complexity are controlled students have little difficulty in grasping such historical data.

Japanese Jr. High School students have to deal with bullying, prostitution, a groing drug phenomenon, an increasing divorce rate, a youth obsessed culture which routinely crosses the line into dangerous deviancy and the pressures to succeed in sports and academia beyond the expectations placed on most western students. If they can deal with all the above, I'm quite confident that learning that their nation wasn't perfect won't melt their brains.

And no I do not touch the Chinese protest issue with my high school students, since they pay me to teach them how to use English at a basic level. I'd be more than willing to go with this with a group of advanced adults whose major goal is to learn to express their opinions and ideas better in English.
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Synne



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone is throwing out opinions; Japan could do this or that...

...China could do this or that.

Propaganda you say? I say its information that was given on a US site about Chinese progression.

We all want Japan to win becuz lets face it...we all mostly live in Japan, and at the moment the knife is pointed in our direction, not Chinas not Americas, not North Koreas...

...but Japans.

Thats fact, and to not accept that or at least to not acknowledge it is arrogance.
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homersimpson



Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 569
Location: Kagoshima

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Propaganda you say? I say its information that was given on a US site about Chinese progression.

We all want Japan to win becuz lets face it...we all mostly live in Japan, and at the moment the knife is pointed in our direction, not Chinas not Americas, not North Koreas...

...but Japans.

Thats fact, and to not accept that or at least to not acknowledge it is arrogance.
_________________

Wow, one can't know where to start: the horrible grammar or the illogical argument.
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Lister100



Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've all got vested interests thats for sure. Who wants to see Japan suffer even in a economic battle when we're all being paid in Yens. I don't want to work for free.

Then again our opinions won't add up to that much anyway so no harm in talking hypotheticals.
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Synne



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

homersimpson wrote:
Wow, one can't know where to start: the horrible grammar or the illogical argument.



One doesnt have to, looks like I got my reply.

Lister100 wrote:
We've all got vested interests thats for sure. Who wants to see Japan suffer even in a economic battle when we're all being paid in Yens. I don't want to work for free.

Then again our opinions won't add up to that much anyway so no harm in talking hypotheticals.



...Illogical?

Ya! sure sounds illogical how I say ppl want to protect Japan becuz thats where they live...

...illogical alright...

...or wait?

...No thats just truth!

...have you seen the news lately?

...whose flag are they burning right now in China?

Is it North Koreas?

Is it the USAs?

...no its Japans actually. Is that regarded to you as "innocent-nothing-to worry-about" behaviour?



...as you so nicely put it to me before in your own words.

homersimpson wrote:
Try reading a newspaper. Or if you get a chance watch the TV.


...and congratulations on perfecting your internet writing...

...really! ...hats off on that one homer.

...also as Ive said before with you when it comes down to this, if you do want to continue to spam or haggle me then you can PM me with it...

...cuz it doesnt belong on this board.
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Birdog3344



Joined: 28 Jun 2004
Posts: 126
Location: Osaka, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've touched on the China-Japan subject with a few of my private adult students and, although they tend to shy away from such 'confrontational' subjects, they do acknowledge the deep resentment and resulting danger between the two nations. For the most part, however, they blame much of the vitriole on the communist government and gloss over or ignore the issue of Japan's hawkish history and its impact on the current tensions. I have no way to know if this accurately reflects the sentiments of the entire country, and I think it demontrates the Japanese reluctance to address controversial issues in public more so than their feelings visa vi China and their bitter history.

As far as Japan's response, or lack thereof, to the Chinese protests, I believe it is a shrewd political move in light of Japan's push to join the UN's national security council. Showing their patience and willingness to turn the other cheek probably looks good in the eyes of the UN's voting members. And its very possible that China's attempt to sabatoge Japan's chances is actually backfiring.

There is also two sides of China's economic coin as far as the Japanese are concerned. Surely a powerfull China is a threat to Japan, but it also provides a huge market for its various industries; raw materials, electronics, etc.
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Synne



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
Posts: 269
Location: Tohoku

PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birdog3344 wrote:

There is also two sides of China's economic coin as far as the Japanese are concerned. Surely a powerfull China is a threat to Japan, but it also provides a huge market for its various industries; raw materials, electronics, etc.


Mind you I wonder how willing China will be to allow Japan some, if not any access to its growth roots, afterall the lack of raw materials is what sent Japan onto Chinese soil to begin with really.
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Travel Zen



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 634
Location: Good old Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is not one state in the region that wants to see a militarily strong China.

Can U imagine a strong communist state in Asia? Trouble.
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