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My quest for Romanian citizenship
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 9:59 pm    Post subject: Romanian citizenship Reply with quote

Naturegirl,
How can anyone not know what nationality they are?

Seriously, I take your point about your mum not realising she still retained Romanian citizenship, but if you had any real desire to get Romanian citizenship, and knowing your mum HAD BEEN Romanian, wouldn't it have been perfectly logical to ENQUIRE? You know, TRY ALL ANGLES? Surely, it must have occured to you that having a parent born in a country MIGHT get you citizenship? At least, find out?

You amaze me...most Romanians I know are bright, imaginative people, who are also resourceful. You better check out whether you will fit in there, for this reason!!!!

Bibble, Bibble, Bibble!! Rolling Eyes
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Romanian citizenship Reply with quote

Bebsi wrote:
Naturegirl,
How can anyone not know what nationality they are?

Seriously, I take your point about your mum not realising she still retained Romanian citizenship, but if you had any real desire to get Romanian citizenship, and knowing your mum HAD BEEN Romanian, wouldn't it have been perfectly logical to ENQUIRE? You know, TRY ALL ANGLES? Surely, it must have occured to you that having a parent born in a country MIGHT get you citizenship? At least, find out?


Ok, My mom came to the States when she was 2 and became a citizen when she was nine. Under Romanian law at that time, my grandmother lost her American citizenship when she married a Romanian. And under USA law, my mom lost her Romanian citizenship. HOwever she didn't know that although under USA law, she was only an American, under Romanian law she was both. I'm currently in the process of getting citizenship, it just take forever as my mom has to register her marriage, register her name change, get a passport, then I have to register my birth, my marriage (hopefully this year) , and then I can get a passport.
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grahamb



Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Posts: 1945

PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 3:22 pm    Post subject: Enquiring mind. Reply with quote

Bebsi, if you'd read NG's original posting, you would have realised that she's been making enquiries right, left and centre.
Hats off to her for taking on the Romanian AND Peruvian civil service simultaneously.
Patience shall surely bring its rewards!
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Romanian Citizenship Reply with quote

I have indeed read NG's original posting. However, after making many enquiries...some of which appear rather unlikely and indeed less than rational...it FINALLY dawns on her that maybe her mother being Romanian MIGHT be of help? Christ, it's the FIRST thing I would go for...ASKING the Romanian authorities! Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that she didn't pursue this avenue. When you trying to get citizenship of a country, the most logical step would appear to be to go to the relevant authorities and say " My mother (or whoever) was once a citizen of the country", to be told, I would assume "Oh, really? Then you are eligible as she is still a citizen".

Oh well, who am I to question anyone's approach?

Incidentally NG, why do the Romanian authorities concern themselves so much with your marriage cert, if you are marrying a Peruvian? If you were marrying a Romanian, that in itself would in time...is it four years?...qualify you. But why are they concerned with a Peruvian?

As it happens, I myself am marrying a Romanian very soon. I will probably, in time apply for a Romanian passport, tho it's certainly not a prerogative at this point, as I am more than happy with my Irish passport. We would envisage our children being raised as Romanians but with dual citizenship. Mind you, by then Romania will be well ensconced in the EU so it will be a moot point anyway.

If I appear harsh, NG, I apologise. No harm meant! Where in Romania have you lived in the past? How long were you there? I take it you really love the country? I would be very interested in hearing your views and comments. What were your perceptions of Romania as a society in post-communist transition? What were the cultural aspects that particularly attracted you to the place? What economic potential do you think it has?

You are obviously a committed "Romanophile" (??) so your views would be particularly welcome. Please PM me...looking fwd!! Smile

Bebsi.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Romanian Citizenship Reply with quote

Bebsi wrote:
I have indeed read NG's original posting. However, after making many enquiries...some of which appear rather unlikely and indeed less than rational...it FINALLY dawns on her that maybe her mother being Romanian MIGHT be of help? Christ, it's the FIRST thing I would go for...ASKING the Romanian authorities! Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears that she didn't pursue this avenue. When you trying to get citizenship of a country, the most logical step would appear to be to go to the relevant authorities and say " My mother (or whoever) was once a citizen of the country", to be told, I would assume "Oh, really? Then you are eligible as she is still a citizen".

Incidentally NG, why do the Romanian authorities concern themselves so much with your marriage cert, if you are marrying a Peruvian? If you were marrying a Romanian, that in itself would in time...is it four years?...qualify you. But why are they concerned with a Peruvian?


I've contact the Romanian embassy in the USA and CHicago. We're going through the long process, It's take about two year.s I've posted all this, I don't think you read it all completely. They are concerned with my mother's marriage cert, as her name on birth cert is different than her marriage cert and her naturalisation cert. FOr the record, our children would then have triple nationality, not dual. My mother was born a Romanian citizen and has always been one.
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Romanian citizenship Reply with quote

Quote:
I just found out that my mother is Romanian.


You wrote that on Oct 30 2004. How did you not know before that? This is what puzzles me!! Even if you hadn't known that she retained her citizenship, would you not have known she was Romanian by birth? And with this knowledge, would it not have been the most logical step to go to the Romanian authorities at the beginning (instead of agonising for ages in this forum, as you appear to have done), and deduce from them at that point that in the circumstances, she was indeed still a citizen, thus making you elibigble? I am utterly bewildered by this!! Confused

Anyway, where in Romania have you lived in the past? How long were you there? I take it you really love the country? I would be very interested in hearing your views and comments. What were your perceptions of Romania as a society in post-communist transition? What were the cultural aspects that particularly attracted you to the place? What economic potential do you think it has? I myself find such questions to be fascinating, and am alway keen to hear the views of others with an interest in Romania.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Romanian citizenship Reply with quote

Bebsi wrote:
Quote:
I just found out that my mother is Romanian.


You wrote that on Oct 30 2004. How did you not know before that? This is what puzzles me!! Even if you hadn't known that she retained her citizenship, would you not have known she was Romanian by birth? And with this knowledge, would it not have been the most logical step to go to the Romanian authorities at the beginning (instead of agonising for ages in this forum, as you appear to have done), and deduce from them at that point that in the circumstances, she was indeed still a citizen, thus making you elibigble? I am utterly bewildered by this!! Confused


WEll, if you would read the entire post, you would find out.

Anyways, my mother thought that if she became American, she would give up previous citizenship. This whole time she was under the impression that she had given up ROmanina citizenship. The truth was that until the 1990s, America didn't recognise dual citizenship. Which meant that in America's eyes, she was only American, HOwever, Romania did and still does recognise dual cit, so this whole time, she was Romanian. In the 1990s, the USA decided to recognise dual cit.
When I posted this, I had ALREADY gone to the embassies, obviously you don't know how much red time is involved. I've never been to Romania, but plan on going to Italy in a few years and the EU passport would be of great help
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, NG. You only found out relatively recently that your mum was also still a Romanian citizen, which is fair enough. But can you explain this to me (something your postings don't make clear): If you knew that your mum was Romanian by birth, why did you not bring this (irrespective of your mum's PERCEIVED citizenship) to the attention of the Romanian authorities at teh very beginning? It strikes me as the most logical thing to do.

As one who greatly appreciates the irony in a situation, it indeed brings a smile to my lips that an American would be striving so hard to get Romanian citizenship, when the average Romanian would die (or among the clearer thinkers among them, kill) to get US citizenship. Laughing

Quote:
obviously you don't know how much red time is involved.


RED TIME? I thought Romania ceased to be a Communist state in 1989? Confused
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meant to ask earlier:

NG, you seem to have become an expert on gaining citizenship to a new country.

I have alway wanted to become a citizen of either Zambia or Tanzania. Not easy, as you can imagine, as I am Irish. I was born there, in Ireland.

However, on reading some stuff lately, I have discovered that I have a relative who came from the African Rift Valley, probably Tanzania but not certain. What course of action would you suggest?

Once I start my application, I will keep all the readers very closely informed of the minutae involved in the bureacratic process, as I know that many, as with your Romanian citizenship application, will be avidly following matters.

Should I start by asking around where my ancestor came from exactly? Citizenship papers for him would be nigh impossible to get, unfortunately, but there is a great deal of evidence that he came from there. He also has an extended family...should I ask around among them? As a few generations have passed, I feel that the distance has become too great Crying or Very sad
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Bebsi"]
If you knew that your mum was Romanian by birth, why did you not bring this (irrespective of your mum's PERCEIVED citizenship) to the attention of the Romanian authorities at teh very beginning?
As one who greatly appreciates the irony in a situation, it indeed brings a smile to my lips that an American would be striving so hard to get Romanian citizenship, when the average Romanian would die (or among the clearer thinkers among them, kill) to get US citizenship. Laughing

Quote:
obviously you don't know how much red time is involved.


RED TIME? I thought Romania ceased to be a Communist state in 1989? Confused[/quote

Still, because my mom's passport expired about 40 odd years ago, first she has to register her name change, then her marriage and then she can get a passport. She has to prove to the Romanian authorities that she is Romanian for them to believe her. And yes, most Romanians would die to get US citizenship, you 'd think that it would be easier to get Romanian citizenship, but we started last Oct, and it will proabbly be another year before I have a RO passport.
Red tape has nothing to do with COmmunisim, it mean beaauracray.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bebsi wrote:


However, on reading some stuff lately, I have discovered that I have a relative who came from the African Rift Valley, probably Tanzania but not certain. What course of action would you suggest?

Should I start by asking around where my ancestor came from exactly? Citizenship papers for him would be nigh impossible to get, unfortunately, but there is a great deal of evidence that he came from there. He also has an extended family...should I ask around among them? As a few generations have passed, I feel that the distance has become too great Crying or Very sad


Try contacting the embassy, I have no idea about Africa, but probably your parents or grandparents would have to be from there. Good luck, anything is possible
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: Red tape Reply with quote

Quote:
Red tape has nothing to do with COmmunisim, it mean beaauracray.



NG,

Do you really mean that "Red Tape" is all about beaauracray? What is beaauracray anyway? I personally have never heard of it. As it happens, I hadn't mentioned Red Tape, but "red time", as I was just quoting what you had written.

So that expression "Red Tape" means something called beaauracray? Do you by any chance mean "bureaucracy"? You must have meant something else, as you are, I am led to believe, an English teacher and therefore hardly prone to make such a grievous spelling error.

As it happens, yes, I DO know what the expression means. I was being facetious...you know, engaging in verbal urinary extraction!!

On a more serious note, my ancestors (there were quite a few of them I believe, according to Dr. Leakey) lived in the Rift Valley some considerable time ago. They weren't very sophisticated I understand, but they got about in their own way, and did OK for their time. However, my direct line tended to evolve with a curious physical quirk that has run in the family since then: they had their tongues firmly jammed against their cheeks, almost sticking out their ears in fact. Would this preclude me from getting citizenship, do you think? The only way I can establish my African ancestry...well, it's a long story that you hardly want to hear, just a load of old bones in fact. For a while there was one individual who was thought to be an ancestor, but was found out not to be so. He is buried at Piltdown in England.

BTW, I hear that the Romanian authorities insist on an IQ test before granting nationality. You had better check this one out, just in case.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Red tape Reply with quote

Bebsi wrote:
Quote:
Red tape has nothing to do with COmmunisim, it mean beaauracray.


So that expression "Red Tape" means something called beaauracray? Do you by any chance mean "bureaucracy"? You must have meant something else, as you are, I am led to believe, an English teacher and therefore hardly prone to make such a grievous spelling error.

As it happens, yes, I DO know what the expression means. I was being facetious...you know, engaging in verbal urinary extraction!!

BTW, I hear that the Romanian authorities insist on an IQ test before granting nationality. You had better check this one out, just in case.


Oh come off it, I was in a hurry, it's the end of the semestre, I'm up to my ears in quizzes, exams, and final projects.
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EnglishBrian



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on Bebsi, if you pull the girl's leg any harder it's going to come off in your hand and she still might not know why.

Naturegirl, I don't envy you the problems with red tape (can't spell that other word) but take solace from one American teacher I worked with who came to Lithuania looking for her 'roots' (plus passport) only to find that the town her parents apparantly came from had been mired in some early 20th century territorial dispute between Lithuania, Poland and Belarus - and none of them seemed to recognise it as having belonged to them. Imagine trying to deal with 3 Eastern European beaurocratic (uh oh)machines simultaneously.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that they still let Romania into the EU. I think the folk in the rich countries have recently realised that last enlargement they let 100 million beggars into their club, and now the votes on the new constitution are happening they're in no mood to let in any more. Think I heard there are legal obligations to letting Bulgaria and Romania in though.

Good luck with it anyway.
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Bebsi



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 958

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Legs, necks, Eastern Europe, bureaucracy.... Reply with quote

I CANNOT pull Naturegirl's leg any more because, she says, she is up to her neck in quizzes, exams and final projects. So, with all that paperwork, I cannot see it. But yes, if it came off that would be awful. What would I then do with it? Wonder if it's a shapely leg? I like shapely legs...assuming they're female of course!! And what about your neck, NG? Does it look attractive and feminine swimming around in all that paperwork?

I have an image, of a beautiful blonde girl with a nice neck, bobbing up and down in a current of moving essays, quizzes, tests and final projects while a shark swims beneath waiting to bite off that shapely leg. Careful out there NG!!!!

Sorry, I think I need a break here. Hang on...I'm on one!!!! Oh well, it must be the weather or something, but I keep having these weird dreams.

Anyway, on the subject of Romania, it and Bulgaria have been formally accepted into the EU subject to certain conditions being met. Once these conditions ARE met, the EU cannot renege. In fairness, I don't think the recent votes in France and The Netherlands had anything to do with an "anti Eastern Europeanism". They were basically, as I see it, a protest vote against politicians who had, it has been felt, been pushing people into something that could radically change their future, without proper consultation or debate. In France especially, people have been very sick of corrupt, self-serving politicos for some time. As the whole Euro-Constitution thing was pushed by these selfsame politicians and bureaucrats, people saw it as a big stick with which to assert themselves. Corruption and coercion are perceived to be growing problems within the union.

Certainly, corruption exists...dare I say, in a more insidious way than it has been long a part of life in Eastern Europe. In Romania, they say you have to bribe the doctor to get better treatment. In some western European countries, there are some who would contend that you really need to be intimately and financially acquainted with the health minister!! You get my general drift: it's a different type of corruption.

Anyway, I think Bulgaria and Romania are OK for entry. Whether it would be the best long term solution for them, is an entirely different debate.

The Euro-Constitution and eastern Europe, are very different issues. Whether there is a new constitution or the old system remains, is a question that has really no bearing on the admission of new members, especially those already admitted.
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