Job Discussion Forums

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

I look forward to visa-free travel to Rossiya, but what about Ukraine and Byelorussia (sorry "Belarus")

Buck Turgidson · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 96

What's so great about it? Sad

Will this mean that Russia, like EU countries, will eventually forbid non-EU passport holders from working there? And what will happen to teacher's Salaries?

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

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Buck Turgidson · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 96

Rogan,

You failed to answer my questions. Since we seem to agree that it is difficult (though not impossible) for non-EU citizens to get work legally in the EU, what is so great about this new arrangement?

I am more concerned about the effect of visa-free travel on the EFL profession in Russia. I forsee a wave of good-time expat types flooding Russia and driving down already meagre salaries.

Buck

rogan · Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 416 Location: at home, in France

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maruss · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus

Hi guys-it's Monday morning,so don't get too het-up about things!
I agree with some of the points made by BOTH of you on this subject,but I would point out that many Russians have abused the visa-free travel facility which started with Cyprus on a mutual basis in 1995 and was supposed to alow tourist visits for up to 3 months at a time.This is the last year anyway because we jo9n the E.U. on 1sr May 2004 and Schengen rules.As a result of this deal,what initially was supposed to be a very promising new market for tourism to Cyprus,rapidly degenerated into a free for all,with over half the annual number of Russians coming here for anything but holidays!Every week,illegal workers and overstayers are rounded up and deported,and if they have no money,the government here is forced to pay for their airline tickets!And I am sorry to say that among the illegal jobs carried out by these people,prostitution is rife among the girls,and has become an organised racket here which has got Cyprus a very unenviable reputation internationally,also as a transit point for women being sent to other countries!
Therefore,I think the E.U. would be well advised to look at our example and with probably 200 million or so people in Russia who are poor and desperate to try their luck abroad,such an experiment could prove a disaster,especially with all the problems they are already facing!Anf you can be sure that there are plenty of people in Russia who will exploit those less fortunate and abuse the system even more than some of the
Cypriots here have done!
I am also angry about those Russians who are in England and up to know good-how did they get in????
M.

Kent F. Kruhoeffer · Joined: 22 Jan 2003 Posts: 2129 Location: 中国

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maruss · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus

Further to what I wrote earlier,just to illustrate my point,a certain Russian girl I knew when she was here in Cyprus a couple of years back(I wrote to Rogan about the story in detail so I won't go into it here) has been in Barcelona since December 2001,and of course her tourist visa expired ages ago!She is doing menial jobs to survive,despite having a university degree,which is at least better than the "worlds oldest profession!"
But like she said to me,she doesn't want to go back to the north of Russia where there are few jobs and no future,plus the teriible climate etc. so will obviously stay in Spain as long as she can,albeit illegally and take a chance.The people in Russia who can afford to travel abroad as genuine tourists are still relatively very few amd it is obvious what will happen if the flood gates are opened....................

Buck Turgidson · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 96

Rogan,

"Capitalism - even in Russia - is all about supply and demand.
When lots of people are prepared to accept those ridiculous salaries then they will continue to be paid."

This was my point. Making it easier for native English speakers to enter Russia will raise supply and keep wages down. It isn't about what conditions I will accept. It is about what conditions others are willing to accept, and as we know, there are even some who will do this job for nothing. Sad

Maruss,

I am puzzled as to why the Western countries decided to offer no visa travel. Last time I checked, France and Germany both had serious unemployment problems. Add to this the growing number of undocumented workers and one wonders why they would open the doors to what will be a huge wave of undocumented workers from Eastern Europe. Perhaps they plan to move production over to Russia? Or maybe they are planning to replace their dwindling native populations with Russians?

Kent,

Certainly integration will be a good thing for Russians Very Happy

But from the perspective of an English teacher, more English speakers means more difficulty finding decent work. Sad

Buck

Snegurochka · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 15

Hi Buck, what makes you so sure that there will be a 'flood' of native speakers teaching English in Russia? They might do without native speakers one of these days. And by the way, BKC is IH. There is no IH anywhere else in Russia, except Moscow.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

The native speaker TEFL teacher is a phenomenon which has existed in some countries for a short time. Large parts of the world neither want nor need native speakers to come and teach English.

The boom period historically is now over, and anyone with any sense would look for a more fulfilling and rewarding career (busdriving, garbage disposal, waitressing)

Buck Turgidson · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 96

Snegurochka,

I meant a flood relative to the number of job offers. All of this is pure speculation of course. I haven't heard mention of this visa agreement anywhere else. Does someone have a link to a news story about the agreement? But making it easier for foreigners to enter Russia can't help but increase competition for jobs. What's more, it will encourage more backpackers who will take subsistance wages.

Scot47,

There is a huge demand for English language education in Russia, as Kent once pointed out in a different thread. They just can't afford to pay for it.

Buck

Snegurochka · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 15

You are not wrong there, Buck! With increasingly less jobs for non-EU passport holders in The Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary and so on, language schools in Russia and its former republics will be able to pick and choose the best EFL teachers they can get. Well, provided they can still get the appropriate visas for their linguistic specialists, that is. On top of that, with the recent SARS scare in China, and Iraqi war, many new TEFL teachers will seriously consider Russia as THE place to wet their feet. Unfortunately, the pay is still not good enough for them to save up those big dollars they need to pay off their student loans. So, if you suggest that salaries for TEFL teachers will decrease due to an influx of teachers, then nobody gains here except those language school owners. What do you say to that?

maruss · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus

As I have discovered since 1994 when I started dealing with Russians,they always gain something in any transactions with foreigners,so I don't suppose Language schools are an exception-the main thing is to avoid being completely ripped-off by them,like many people already did,in amounts ranging from a few hundred bucks up to millions involving foreign corporations,hardly any of whom have succeeded in getting anything back!!It seems that in Russia,laws are passed but then only implemented according to how strong the fists are of those trying to impose them!

M.