Job Discussion Forums

Mark-O

Hi to all,

If you've read my other thread then you will know that I'm getting a bit confused with the whole PGCE issue.

I've been looking at UK university prospectuses and reading UK education/teaching pages but I need something more HK-specific (as this is where I plan to start my teaching career).

My question goes out to all UK NETs past and present and those who are generally 'in-the-know': What types of PGCE do you have for teaching ENGLISH in HK? I'd like to hear especially from those NETs who are/have been teaching at primary or middle level schools please.

For those NETs from the UK did they need to work as a teacher in the UK prior to working in HK? Are the NET scheme strict on this prior experience?

THANKS TO ALL IN ADVANCE.

Mark

ChrisRose · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 427 Location: Hong Kong

The P.G.D.E. stands for Postgraduate Diploma of Education (Discipline / filed)

P.G.C.E's and P.G.C.E.'s are available for any higher study, e.g. beyond Bachelor degrees but are below the Master�s degrees.

You could choose; English, TESOL, ELT, ELE, EFL, Primary / Secondary Education, Life Long Learning, Counciling, Educational Management or any other field, even I.T. is highly favoured. Of course if you were to choose say Law of accountancy that might limit your choice of levels and subjects.

As for Hong Kong, any of the above fields at the P.G.D.E. (the Dip. level) would entitle you to become a member of the School English Panel, with an additional $10K to $15K per month for joining the bedlam of endless paper pushing.

For the purposes of English Langugae teaching, you may consider a filed of eiihter relivance or of intereest to yourself.

Mark-O · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:02 am Post subject:

Thanks for clearing that up for me, ChrisRose.

I wasn't quite sure what level the PGCE stood at with regards to Bachelor Degrees and Masters Degrees. I know that the PGCE seems to be very much a requirement for some institutions in HK, though I've seen little other request for it from countries outside of HK (apart from the UK schools).

Does anyone have any experience of how it bears in other countries like Japan, China or elsewhere in Asia? Is it held in high esteem and likely to get you higher salaries in these countries?

ChrisRose · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 427 Location: Hong Kong

WIth regards to the second part of your question, who highly is it regarded in different countries.

Well, I think I should point out the differences between various Master's Degrees.

Yu will be aware of all the junk mail offering fake degrees. Master's Degrees have been in a similar situation for many years. Usually to commence a Masters Degree you require a recognised First degree, however many overseas institutes, paticularly in the USA, offer Masters coures without such strict requirments. As such the difficulty in comparing dgrees from different institutes and countries. This is beeing addressed by a number of Qualification Frameworks world-wide.

Also Post Graduate courses, tend to be more of a professional / vocational training than academic. Postgraduate courses are also stepping stones to a Masters degree, with many institues offering hte P.G.D.E. as an exit point for the Masters programmes for students who do not wish to continue onwards to the Masters.

Usually a first degree with a P.G.C.E / P.G.D.E. are well recognised. However a masters is universally recognised as a level required for either teachign or lecturing, subject to experince requirments.

Mark-O · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 8:16 am Post subject:

That's great - thanks for that. I've been having some dialogue with a UK TEFL course tutor and your points reflect his i.e. the Masters being the most recognised qualification and that which would help lead to higher education work. I've also looked into Masters in TEFL here in the UK and standards are as high as you mention. As far as I've seen, at least a year experience of TEFL f/t is required, as well as a first degree.

From what I am being told it seems like it would be best to go and get some experience in the TEFL field for 1-2 years and then attempt to take a Masters course and avoid the PGCE route.

ChrisRose · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 427 Location: Hong Kong

With regards
to PPost Graduate courses and Masters, that can be taken in series.

Most universities offer the following steps

Masters Degree (final exit point) 18 to 24 months
Post Graduate Diploma in Education (exit point 2) 9 months onwards
Post Graduate Certificate in Education (exit point 1) 6 - 9 months

As for expereince of course that is pretty much essential.

I would suggest that you look at the part time courses in Postgraduate studies and work in som form of local language insititue.

If oyu have no previous background in ESL, then perhaps start with a recognised Cetificate, e.g. CELTA, or TESOL. Gain expereince and continue your studies as much as you can before traveling overseas to teach.

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

I presently work as a lecturer in a Japanese university and by the time I will leave this job that will be 8 years experience, all in Japan. I have a masters in International Relations, and presently teach both English classes and International Realtions classes in English. Do I need to go back to the UK to get a PCSE to get a good job in Hong Kong? Thanks...

ChrisRose · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 427 Location: Hong Kong

That would depend on what you wish to teach.

For example if oyu applied to teach "international Relations" in English at university, you may not need the P.G.C.E. / P.G.D.E.

However if you wanted to teach English, it would be prefrable to have the additional certification. But any recognised certification would suffice. Although the Diploma level is perfeered.

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

Thanks Chris.

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

I'd say it depends more upon WHERE you wish to teach. University=a professional teaching certificate(PGCE/PGDE) is not required.
Secondary school=REQUIRED. It is one of the great mysteries to me that lecturing at university is not deemed to require teacher training.

Mark-O · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:33 am Post subject:

Chris,

You mentioned for me to try and enrol on a part-time course at a local language inst etc - what kind of course did you have in mind?

Thanks

Mark.

Smooth Operator · Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 140 Location: Japan

Yes. I agree, a mystery. The next question is then: which is the best job? University, international school or NET?

Marcoregano · Joined: 19 May 2003 Posts: 872 Location: Hong Kong

Well, Smooth O....surely most important in that respect is whether you prefer working with young kids, teenagers or old kids/young adults. (NET teachers or international schools can be primary or secondary). If money and holidays are your main concern, then some of the international schools probably offer the top deals. However, the NET scheme still pays very well (tho not so well as it used to) and you are far more likely (assuming you have your PGCE!) to get a job as a NET. The uni jobs have been/are being hit....see my post below....decline of the HK uni job.