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Non-Native Speakers in TEFL
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nina



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 12
Location: Bosnia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I do not know from where to start but I know that in one comment about police officers, was really offending. Why? Because I know that it is not only required to have secondary school it is required to have more and I do not want that anybody should underestimate police officers, as I am not underestimating any other job. I have been in Police for few years, and in that job was not so much relevant english it was important to make clear situation about crime, murder, rape, robbery, domestic violance. And it is true that some people are not knowing how to write english, I know I read few lines about me and as well I know TRUTH IS TRUTH. I just felt it offened a bit, nothing else, still am repeating am not English teacher and I will not study english. Why am in this forum I do not know but still i like to talk, to share opinions, I know that each person has right for democratic opinion, since all of us are living in such countries, and that is why we had war in Bosnia. Dduck, thank you for support and all those who understand my point. I will give my level best to improve street english, I know that I do not write perfect Queen`s English, and I will quote my english friend " My dear, it is not important how you speak or write english or any other language, it is important that he or she understands you, you do not offend anyone because you do not speak my english and that you believe in yourself." That was the most smartest thing I ever heard from one police officer and he was 50 yrs old plus really expirianced person, he guided me through police job.

I am young, I know but I will always defend my opinion without hitting someone else with words. I understand all of you but still am not guilty if I have grammatical problems, am trying to improve my english, and I will continue showing up in this forum whenever I have time.

Maybe I was a bit harsh this time, but none of you know how I learned this english, what situations I have been going through, and if you read my posts it might happen, like Mr. Dduck found out that I never learned english in school I loved english, not like or adore, I loved this language beside german and italian, so since my 11 yrs of age I had english language as hoby without knowing that I could use it in future.

I know that some of you will try to clarify own opinion, but there is no need " I COPIED YOUR MESSAGE, SIR!" " ROGER".

Mr. Iain
One more funny thing is that accidantely I found this forum so I started to stick around and because I liked the topic, but I will now stick around with students not only teachers. But to have this sort of spirit I will continue to stick around and BOTHER others (I hope this is correct Very Happy

Yours Nina
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Ann



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good for you, Nina!
We have too many pompous asses here. Nice to bring them down a notch or two. (I can dream, can't I?) Laughing
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Paul G



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 125
Location: China & USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nina:

Why does the truth offend you? I explained to you the standard educational requirements for a police officer in the USA. A high school diploma; that's it! In this country, just being a police officer does not mean that one is well educated. If it is different in your country, fine. I never pretended to know what the requirements are in your country. Why are you pretending to know what they are in mine?

In any event, anyone who spells "bother" "boder" wasn't paying a whole hell of a lot of attention when s/he was in school. Just showing up doesn't count for much when it comes to school. It is necessary to pay attention and study.
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bnix



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:00 am    Post subject: Hypocrisy(To Ann) Reply with quote

You couldn't resist making that "pompous asses' comment ,could you,Ann?And yet you castigated me in some of your other posts for being "arrogant' and "judgmental".It appears that you think it is okay for you to make remarks like"pompous asses'When someone else does it,they are being "judgemental".There is a word for what you are doing....it is called "hypocrisy".People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones...although of course you might accuse me again of being "judgmental".... Razz Laughing Rolling Eyes
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dduck



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 422
Location: In the middle

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul G wrote:
In any event, anyone who spells "bother" "boder" wasn't paying a whole hell of a lot of attention when s/he was in school. Just showing up doesn't count for much when it comes to school. It is necessary to pay attention and study.

Paul, don't you think you're being a little harsh? Nina has already explained her error, but does it really matter that she made a mistake? Isn't it more important to understand what she says and help her say it?

nina wrote:
Since this issue was according to bother, please do not laugh one Mr. American wrote BODER (he was my chief for 2 yrs and plus Police officers) and in my one dictionary is BODER not BOTHER so tell me who is wrong me or those two ways.


Iain
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TaoyuanSteve



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 1028
Location: Taoyuan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a fairly interesting topic. It never seems to grow old. I agree, in theory, with alot of what Nina (?) has said. The best teachers are not always the ones with degrees. One of the previous posts suggested that Japan will sometimes grant a visa to a non-degree holder. I've heard of that, also. I think you have to have had a substantial amount of experience in order to be able to bypass the degree requirement. The last time I heard about that it was at least three years of teaching experience (how you would gain that experience without a degree is another matter).

Unfortunately, Nina, while the best teachers will not always have a degree, they had better have one if they want to work in a foreign country legally. The degree often satisfies the immigration requirements of a given country. You often will not have the opportunity to work in that country without one. It's simply a condition that must be met. So, unfortunately, the teacher with the diploma --be s/he good or bad -- is the one who has more opportunities overseas.
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Paul G



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 125
Location: China & USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iain:

I was responding to this comment:

nina wrote:
I do not know from where to start but I know that in one comment about police officers, was really offending. Why? Because I know that it is not only required to have secondary school it is required to have more and I do not want that anybody should underestimate police officers, as I am not underestimating any other job. I have been in Police for few years, and in that job was not so much relevant english it was important to make clear situation about crime, murder, rape, robbery, domestic violance.


My reference to not paying attention in school was to Nina's American friend, not to Nina.

Nina is getting to look more and more like a troll. This has evolved into the "let's feel sorry for poor Nina" thread. Normally polite users are jumping all over others because they aren't being condescending enough to Nina. I think this must be why there are forums for students. IMO ELL's shouldn't jump into these debates unless they can hold their own and don't have thin skin about people who disagree with them.
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nina



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 12
Location: Bosnia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again,

It seems I will be again on target line after these comments, but why not, anyway all of us must be exposed to the truth Very Happy . I am not afraid of it.

Mrs. Ann,

I do not know why you are so arrogant in your behaviour towards me. It is true I do not have high education like you, but still it does not give you any right to behave like that.

It might happen that I misunderstood some points, but I have been so clear in my comments or it could happen that you did not understand "my english". If you wanted to prove your feminist power, CONGRATULATIONS you did it, and if you want to here more things about my life, dear Lady you would cry, and on the end you will understand that I am not trying to do anything I just need help, since for God`s sake am speaking to teachers who were studying for many years to reach this part in their jobs. So, I am ready for next combat and trust me I will not be so nice in these words. One more thing do not underestimate me, you do not know me as I do not know you if you want to help me welcome but if not try to be gentle like lady.

Mr. Paul G,

I was not offended with your comment. I know the police procedure, which is the same all over the world, and it is true that person needs secondary education to get into police. Anyway, I have been the one who worked on verification of those diplomas, and believe me it was not so easy job to do.
I did not want to offend you I just reacted on typical way when it comes to issue of police. It is not really easy job especially if person is female, and has to work 24 hours with the trash of human population. So, do not worry Mr. Paul I understood it, just I have been imposed to certain comments, which were not even in frame of our talks.
Truth never offended me, since I am working with truth. Just I hope you will understand my position, though I am not highly educated and I do not belong to your branch.
But this time I will be serious with my question, if you want me to go from this forum I will go and not appear again, even if I do not want it.

Mr. TaouyaunSteve,

Thank you for your opinion, and to be fair with my comment like you, I will just say I know that diploma is required to get a job but this was an issue when I started in this forum. I do not know what to tell you this time since I am not having any comment and not enough time, but hopefully I will reach my stage and be able to comment on your comment next time. I just need to refresh my small gray cells and I will be ready for action Very Happy .

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Maybe, next time I will bring my dictionary so I could somehow understand and to talk about certain issues Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

So, my dear people thank you for good time, I hope next time we will chat more and share opinions, only if certain persons will be able to understand my street english Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Stay well, in good health and laugh a lot.

Yours Nina.
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Lucy Snow



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 218
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do not know why you are so arrogant in your behaviour towards me. It is true I do not have high education like you, but still it does not give you any right to behave like that.

It might happen that I misunderstood some points, but I have been so clear in my comments or it could happen that you did not understand "my english". If you wanted to prove your feminist power, CONGRATULATIONS you did it, and if you want to here more things about my life, dear Lady you would cry, and on the end you will understand that I am not trying to do anything I just need help, since for God`s sake am speaking to teachers who were studying for many years to reach this part in their jobs. So, I am ready for next combat and trust me I will not be so nice in these words. One more thing do not underestimate me, you do not know me as I do not know you if you want to help me welcome but if not try to be gentle like lady.



I'm a little confused here--when and where was Ann arrogant towards you? What is this nonsense about her "proving her feminist power?" If anything, she's been defending you against all of your self-perceived enemies.
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TokyoLiz



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1087
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Nina's not making much sense Reply with quote

Nina wrote to Ann

Quote:
I do not know why you are so arrogant in your behaviour towards me. It is true I do not have high education like you, but still it does not give you any right to behave like that.

It might happen that I misunderstood some points, but I have been so clear in my comments or it could happen that you did not understand "my english". If you wanted to prove your feminist power, CONGRATULATIONS...


Nina, your response doesn't make much sense in the context of Ann's posts. As Lucy Snow noted (and I've gone back to read Ann's posts), Ann has defended you in her messages.

Often, threads digress from their titles. This thread certainly has. This one is titled "I want a job, but I have no degree. Gimme!" and it is assumed that this is a chance to comment on those people who believe that, just because they speak English, they are somehow qualified to teach the language. The direction of this thread lately has just been a firefighting exercise, with various teachers and aspiring teachers defending your admirable efforts to learn English outside institutions and generally revolves around you.

This isn't a useful exercise for either teachers looking for work and advice or for those who are looking to start a career in TESOL. Usually, the forum on this site is a valuable resource with contributions from teachers sharing their teaching experitise, experience in various locations and questions. I consider it a lifeline to help me survive the transition from my home country to Japan and as a place to share information with teachers who have similar experiences, as a shoulder to cry on.

The majority of your posts on this forum have been in this thread. Apparently, this is one of the few topics that is of interest to you. If you want to talk about learning independently and the problems with erroneous dictionary entries, I suggest you post messages in the language learners' forums where you will find people in the same situation as you and you will likely find sympathetic students with whom you can share your joys and frustrations.
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