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Racism in Asia????????
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Which country provides the most and best opportunities for black EFL instructors?
Japan
33%
 33%  [ 2 ]
Hong Kong
50%
 50%  [ 3 ]
Taiwan
16%
 16%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 6

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ronin



Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Location: canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"P.S. If you want to protest something, here is one for you.
To this day in the state of Alabama,U.S.A it is illegal for a Black and a White person to get married. The case is being brought to the Alabama state supreme court. Hopefully it will be overturned. Just think a lot of us(myself included would not be here if our grandparents were from Alabama.)"

Its Ironic that the U.S. wants to take over other countries that they say have no basic human rights, when it is still illegal to mix races in the U.S..

P.S. Proud to be Canadian!!
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deshell32



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:30 am    Post subject: thank you Reply with quote

I sincerely thank each and everone of you for your intellectual thoughts and opinions. But please (not trying to be rude) is it possible that any future comments can stay on the topic at hand: Taking racism into consideration, which country is the best for a black EFL teacher with one year experience (South Korea) and a Master of Science (not arts) in Education (no type of teaching certification) to teach: Japan, Hong Kong, or Taiwan. AND OF COURSE I REALIZE THAT RACISM IS GOING TO EXIST IN ALL OF THESE NATIONS. WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THIS. I AM SIMPLY LOOKING FOR WHICH MIGHT BE LESS BLATANT, OR which will not be AS NEGATIVE for a black teacher. Thank you again.
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psychedelic



Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 167
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Capergirl.
I am sorry to hear about the bad experiences that you've had in Gor-eeeeee-uggggghhhhh. I have also had some bad experiences like MANY others..Eastern Europeans,other Asians,Americans,Canadians etc.
If I may kindly make a suggestion, the proper phrase is Asian economic crisis, not IMF deal. Or, if talking about Korea specifically..the Korean economic crisis. So many South Koreans have blamed the IMF or United States for THEIR economic crisis which was THEIR fault. The proof is there as I have read in detail. Unfortunately,BLAME BLAME BLAME is the name of the game many times with many South Koreans. Not the truth based on facts. It is the fault of certain South Koreans that the nation almost went bankrupt. It is for this reason that first the South Koreans went to the Japanese for a bailout, and were refused. Then, they went to the IMF with an arrogant attitude as I have read. That attitude was "You need us more than we need you." Yes, doesn't this smack of the "Oh, we're so SUPERIOR" attitude that the Koreans have? BIG MISTAKE!! Smile The IMF's reply was basically "We'll cut you off just like the Russian's." Smile You might have read about Russia's economic problems not long ago..and having to go to the IMF for a bailout.
*** As far as your being spit on,etc. ARE YOU HAPPY KOREA????!!!! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO BE PROUD OF???!!!!!! YOUR COUNTRY IS A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Roger



Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Posts: 9138

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At a birthday party last night. The happy was a black African. We were two whites, the African, plus a gaggle of Chinese in a karaoke bar.

The karaoke bar was a concession to the Chinese side. My African friend sang a few songs himself - all in Mandarin! The Chinese girls sang English songs, a few sang Chinese.

The African's girlfriend sat close to him. From time to time, he would hug her, embrace her. We drank beer.
Out of nowhere, a searing topic sprang up between a few of us sitting in one corner. I don't know if I brought it up or someone else (the beer, the beer!). It was about international relationships.
Soon I learnt - we all learnt! - that the African loved his girlfriend deeply, but her love was more subdued. In particular my friend complained she avoided public displays of affection. He had wanted to meet her folks during the recent holiday season - she had refused. Some of his female friends from overseas would give him a peck on his cheek - this infuriates his CHinese girlfriend.

"He has many girlfriends", she says. "Nonsense! They are just friends, platonic friends," he says.
Does she understand 'platonic'?
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Capergirl



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 1232
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Psychedelic Very Happy
When I said "IMF deal", I was not referring to the Korean economic crash itself but to the hullaballoo that followed. The International Monetary Fund bailed out the South Korean government (as we all know) shortly after the crash and the Koreans did not like (huge understatement) the conditions that were imposed on them by the IMF. They seemed to think that the IMF, and the U.S. in particular, was trying to take control of their country and its economy. Anti-foreigner sentiment was extremely high during that time and it was a very trying time to be a North American living in South Korea...as I'm sure anyone who was there could tell you (or perhaps you were there and you experienced it yourself). I'm well aware of where the fault lies (*cough* Chaebol Wink ) and of how the Korean government attempted to place blame elsewhere. My point on this thread is that being white does not preclude you from experiencing discrimination in Asia. The idea that complete strangers would spit on me or that taxis would drive away from me (once with the door opened Rolling Eyes ) was a complete shock to a blonde female from Canada. Wink
To the original poster of the thread: I'm sorry if the discussion went a little off-topic, but I doubt that you are going to get a satisfactory answer to your query. Is one of the countries you listed any less racist towards black people than the others? I doubt that very much. I think if you are going to teach EFL in Asia, you will need to prepare yourself for just about anything. Wink
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Dave Kessel



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:43 am    Post subject: Go to Saudi!!! Reply with quote

I do nor recommend any Black people to work in E. Asia, period! You should go to the ME, particulalry Saudi Arabia. We have many Black instructors here, and while this is no paradise, Islam strictly prohibits racial discrimination, so things are OK. Saudis are used to seeing Black people and used to having Black Americans here. I'd say, get into a military contract in Saudi.

When you have your monye, then you can go to Asia.

If you still want to be in Asia, I suggest Vietnam. One of my Black friends lived there for 6 years and he loved it.

They poorer they are the less racist they tend to be.
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pistonear



Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deshell,
I am interested to find out if you received any offers, and if so what country you are working in? I personally think that in any country their are going to be racist losers. I am from New York and we have a phrase that says" Do you" stop worrying about the next man and Do you! If you still haven't found anything go to the Middle East. If you choose ESL you going to be the hired help in any country. Go with the flow and do you best work. gajien, cocojien, guilo cocolo who cares! Some people we'll love you want to know how it is to be you, and some will hate you.
I have heard Japan has a large counter culture dedicated to"Hip/Urban/Jazz/Black life". Young Japanese kids into hip hop. Hey I say anything that helps them identify with you and African culture in a positive way is good. Your a teacher, teach them that it its not logical to hate. Also remember that you can be your worst enemy, if you have a victim mindset then you become the victim.
I went to a college where all I saw were Black people everyday, and to them I wasn't Black enough. I used to hear everything, wetback jokes and green card stuff. I know how it is to feel like an outsider, don't let it bother you. If you are good, cream will always rise to the top. I hope that you find what your looking for and I pray for you to become more comfortable with yourself and to have strength.
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deshell32



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:28 am    Post subject: To Pistonear Reply with quote

I do not understand how you can associate my question with me lacking confidence in myself. I will leave it at that, because that was a very bizarre and incorrect conclusion that you reached from a simple question which simply asks where might racism be less prevalent than in Korea. Simply because someone wants to find a better living situation where they can have more peace of mind should in no way imply that they lack self confidence. You seem to be aiming your criticism towards me instead of aiming it towards the many ignorant minds throughout this world who are the reasons threads such as this are started.
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cafebleu



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 404

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2003 7:14 am    Post subject: I agree with deshell Reply with quote

While pistonear is obviously coming from a sympathetic position to deshell, I think he has missed the point. It is obvious from his postings that deshell is not on a `victim trip` or is projecting his discomfort on to any situation or racial group.

Asian countries (in common with most countries in the world) have their share of racists, and unlike western countries there are few, if any, legal means of successfully challenging the racism that occurs at all levels of society. In fact I would say there are less than few means of challenging the racist mindsets and institutionalised racism of Asian societies.

As I wrote on another thread, as soon as a rental office knew that I was a foreigner who was interested in renting a place that can kindly be described as a shack, they told my friend who had called on my behalf that I would need 2 guarantors. Even for Japan this is unusual. The one guarantor was mentioned during the telephone call and then when my friend said I was a foreigner, it suddenly became 2 guarantors. In my home country, a Japanese person or any other foreigner could and would use this as grounds for charging racial discrimination and could be in line for compensation if they decided to take legal action.

It is not simply a mistaken perception - Japanese society (along with other Asian societies) has racially discriminating norms entrenched in its institutions and everyday living realities. The racism I have experienced here is minor but it is a reality. But actually deshell would be better off coming to Japan than a number of other Asian countries, such is the objective reality of racism in Asia.
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