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Tel Aviv University TASP
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 15612
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again we have a rather glowing report from a post #1 of a new member. As to which side is telling the whole truth, the answer usually lies somewhere in the middle.

General advice... read all the messages, and ask many questions as the new poster suggests. Make sure that the program meets your needs and expectations AND professional goals.

VS
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Ixchel



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Posts: 151
Location: The 7th level of hell

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:16 am    Post subject: If you have complaints about TASP Reply with quote

Please write to mkaplan@jewishla.org they are one of the main underwriters of the program and will definitely take action if they get enough complaints. I have already forwarded the text portions of the posts (without any identifying information-not even that it came from Dave's) because I had such an ugly and strange experience with Dr. Dank and I was glad to read I wasn't alone.
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tasprefugee



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TRUTHABOUTTASP (TAT) attempts to respond to the criticisms of TASP by laying the fault at the feet of the TASP "dropouts" who, it is implied, somehow lacked the intelligence to understand what the TASP materials say about things like visas, and the details about the TESOL degree (examples 1 and 3).

Let's be clear; What the director of TASP tells you, in writing or in person, about any of these things is not the point. The point is that these things are subject to change with little or no notice. Sometimes what you read or are told is blatantly contradicted in reality (as was the case for those of us relying on Stafford Loans). Other times the director disingenuously reinterprets things in such a way so as to remain true to the letter of what was written but with an entirely different outcome. Thus, he is able to fault you for misunderstanding while denying any blame for his willful manipulation, much like TAT does in their post.

As to the point about Tel Aviv University, I don't know which post TAT is referring to having to do with their credentials. Again, that's not quite the point. The point is that TAU really has little if anything to do with TASP beyond the TAU classes TASP piggy-backs onto. TAU will *not* be able to provide any advice or assistance for those having trouble with TASP. Tel Aviv University is a real institution of higher education with deans, department heads, student advisors, support staff and ethical oversight. Tuition at TAU is paid on a per-term / per-semester basis with refunds for the unused balance of tuition. TASP, on the other hand, is a closed, insular dictatorship, the sole province of one man where there is no recourse for grievances except through him and where your tuition is gone the minute it is in his hands even if you never spend a minute in the programme. Again, this is unlike any programme of its kind. It's no wonder this extraordinary aspect of the programme escapes many people.

Now, if either of these aspects has changed -- either TASP's unheard-of tuition policy or the complete lack of any ethical oversight -- then perhaps TAT will let us know.

As to TASP not being "perfect", we can all agree that no programme is. A programme like TASP, however, that literally hemorrhages students, with huge portions of cohorts fleeing without finishing their degrees is, once again, unheard-of and a sign of real trouble. Special Forces or high-pressure med-schools may see such a high attrition rate. Not TESOL courses.

Again, let's remember that all of those "dropouts" are college graduates who carefully read, listened to and believed what they were told about the programme and who thought they were making smart decisions based on the best possible information. They (we) left because, despite what we read and were told, we encountered a reality that was very different. This is not the fault of the "dropouts". We dropped out as a result of the deceitful manipulations of the man running TASP.
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JeremyOL



Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: another opinion Reply with quote

I enjoy the program. I believe in what it is to the Israeli children and what it can be for the individual. With anything, it is what you make of it. A great deal of what people have been describing in this forum have been kinks in the program that have been changed.

Currently TASP is in its 4th year at Tel Aviv University. We have begun a student advisory council that works with the University student government, the university professors, the Directors of TASP, and the board of directors of TASP. It is just one example of how the program is evolving positively.

We have a unique opportunity to work in the public school system (religious or non religious) and to attend a major university. For me as a non Hebrew speaker there are only 3 English graduate programs at TAU that I know of. Sacler Medical School, Middle Eastern Studies, and TASP.

Israel is a wonderful place, with many different faces. If you have more questions about TASP or anything, I'm always up for a good discussion. feel free to email me directly if u wish... jeremylansing@gmail.com
peace and health, shana tova!


Last edited by JeremyOL on Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tasprefugee



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am glad to hear TASP is changing for the better. While I would describe the problems I, and many, many other folks have had with TASP as quite a bit more than "kinks" (huge portions of an entire year's cohort do not flee a programme because of mere "kinks") it is nice to know such changes are happening.

Now, if TASP would take the step of refunding the students' money for those who do not finish the programme, it would go quite a way towards transforming TASP into a legitimate programme. Throughout my years of study in higher education, I have simply never encountered an institution that refused to refund students at least some portion of their unused tuition. Perhaps they exist. I have never heard of the practise prior to encountering TASP. In the rest of the academic world, the proportions of the refunds you receive may vary based on a whole host of criteria, and certainly there are deadlines after which no refund is possible. These deadlines are always well into the term, however. TASP's policy of refusing refunds for people who haven't even started the programme is absolutely unethical, though.

Of all the things over the years that TASP has pulled that strain its credibility to the breaking point, this policy is the one that needs to be changed the most.

The changes Jeremy describes above are a welcome starting point. Those of us who have experienced the more vindictive and uglier side of TASP will need to see a lot more before we're convinced of its new merits.
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TRUTHABOUTTASP



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Please email questions, comments Reply with quote

There is so much criticism of TASP on this site that I couldn't blame anyone for deciding not to even apply or pursue more information from the program directors and current students. I am not getting into a protratced dispute on this site with previous students who feel (or were) burned, and I won't be posting anymore. Anyone visiting here gets the point that some previous students had many grievances, and I really don't see the need for those ex-students to respond to me now, though I wholeheartedly expect it. I simply tried to show in my previous posting that a lot on here is speculation seemingly from non-TASPers. And some of it is outdated info from ex-TASPers who attended an unknown number of years ago.

I write now wishing only to emphasize beyond my previous posting that you should really hear what CURRENTLY ENROLLED students think (moreso than this info on Dave's), and I can help you do that:

***PLEASE READ*** My group ("cohort 9") started last year with 20 students & currently 18 are still enrolled. I can't speak for them, but they all seem generally content to me. One dropped out very early on due to health reasons and the other one got married and worked full-time. The new cohort (10) seems very content; maybe they too will post on this site after some time in the program. We all know that there were greater numbers of dropouts in the past and we don't assume it's the fault of the students. But I would add that both of the current cohorts are highly motivated, proactive, and savvy, and we've been able to resolve a great number of issues to our satisfaction, and in a pretty stress-free format we've established (i.e. the TASP Student Advisory Council, or AC). So if you want current perspectives from 2nd-year students who are slated to complete the program, email me (TRUTHABOUTTASP@HOTMAIL.COM) and I will provide you with e-mails of those who are interested in discussing the program, and the emails of the directors if you like. The students won't hide problems if they believe there are any, but I am quite sure you will get a different perspective than the ones saturating this forum.

I love being in Israel; the school where I teach rocks; and - bottom line - knowing what I know now, I would still attend TASP.

Peace and good luck
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guangho



Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 476
Location: in transit

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally off-base and non-TASP related, where would one find out about openings in Israeli higher ed, especially writing centers in colleges or unis or perhaps IEP programs? My apologies for derailing the b-tchfight of this thread. You may now resume bickering.
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AnglitTeacher



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: TASP SUCKS! Reply with quote

I am in this terrible program, its a bunch of lies! Yes you get your M.A. (if they don't kick you out for any small thing before you complete it) oh...and AFTER you have paid the full tuition and have no chance to get any percentage of a refund. Yes there is a teaching internshit...Freudian Slip!Some people are placed in better schools...so they may be getting somethng out of it...but a GREAT majority is stuck in a TERRIBLE situation! OH > and lets not even mention the two people that head it! Oy-Vey Wink She is rediculous and He is controlling (probably over her as well)...she doesn't know what she is talking about and he loves to hear himself talk...she is dishavelled and he is very obviously fake. NOT ONE PERSON IN THE PROGRAM HAS HAD A LASTING POSITIVE EXPERIENCE WITH THEM!
Do yourself a favor...DON'T DO IT! Idea
Message me if you'd like any details.
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AnglitTeacher



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:20 pm    Post subject: Update... Reply with quote

Just wanted to let you all know...(those who have contacted me),

I have decided to quit the program after this year! Hopefully this year goes by fast enough and it all turns out to be just a bad dream. Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation ...I wish.........
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Belle81



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

English-4-Israel and Anglit Teacher I would love to have your emails to discuss the program with you more because I think we all need to join together and do something. I have also had a bad experience with this program.
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Belle81



Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TruthaboutTASP, if you have the emails of the directors of the program, gladly give them to us, because I have been trying for a long time to get them and it seems to me that they donīt exist...
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TRUTHABOUTTASP



Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: directors' email Reply with quote

Sorry folks, my email address tied to Dave's ESL had gone down.

The directors' (in Israel) email is: zdank@netvision.net.il
Phone: 011-972-9-8995711

In the US: Merav Kaplan (Jewish Federation of LA): mkaplan@jewishla.org
Phone: (323)761-8138
As noted elsewhere on this forum, the LA Jewish Federation is a major underwriter of this program and they too have a contact person in the US (Merav), whom I easily was able to make contact with when I was first interested in the program.

Our academic advisor / lead TAU faculty member is: Professor Ofra Inbar,
email: inbarofra@bezeqint.net
She is very smart and helpful.

We have a student government we created in order to work jointly with the directors towards improving and reviewing the program, as well as presenting student needs. The president's email is: jeremylansing@gmail.com
Given that this is a student government, he is a student (in 2nd year), and I think you will find him very fair, balanced, and informative.

Good luck
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