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Yaramaz ve tembel ÷grenciler var
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:21 pm    Post subject: Yaramaz ve tembel ÷grenciler var Reply with quote

Yeah folks, it's a big problem in the Ízel Koleji I teach at. The students are very lazy and disruptive in class, and this is the vast majority of students. The grades are 4 and 5. Ages around 10-11. Little devils they are in their vast majority, who take morbid pleasure in driving Yabanci teachers nuts.

The problems were mentioned to the regular class teacher (Turkish) but nothing has improved. The same students continue their antics (shouting, running around class, hitting people, making rude noises, knocking things over etc...) day after day, and it is a wonder that English language teachers put up with this nonsense. One English teacher at this Koleji was given a stern warning by the Administration because he had very lightly pulled a student's ear who was running riot in the class. The diabolical student went home crying and the next day the parents were at the Koleji to set up a meeting with the teacher and fill in a complaint form. The Administration warned the teacher and the form went into his file.

It seems that in Turkey very little or nothing can be done to curtail the ridiculous/babyish behaviour that occurs on a daily basis in the private schools.

When you speak to Turks who attend regular schools they state that there are very few discipline problems in the regular (non fee paying) schools because the Administration would not tolerate wayward behaviour.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2338
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:54 pm    Post subject: cok yaramaz ve deli orengiler var Reply with quote

In the Lise where I am now, you can really tell which kids came in as scholarship students from a state school via the Hazirlik prep class and which kids poured in from the Primary... violent, lazy, noisy little monsters many are. We are working at undoing some of the damage done there. These kids have too much money and very little sense....and they've been allowed to get away with it for ages. I have a lone Primary boy in my prep class and he actually refuses to work! I see them 2 or 3 hours a day and often three days will go by before he even picks up a pencil. He just grins smugly at me when I tell him to work, and says, "Insh'allah, teacher, insh'allah!" Rolling Eyes
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dmb



Joined: 12 Feb 2003
Posts: 8397

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has been about ten years since I taught kids in turkey. Since then I have been mainly teaching at dershanes and unis. But I vaguely remember a former DOS(turkish) telling me that the kids were used to being disciplined by being smacked, so I should do the same. I never did, but is this the norm or am I way off the mark. Do turkish teachers threaten students with violence?
BTW I am totally against this
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Leila2003



Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:44 am    Post subject: Naughty and lazy kids....??? Reply with quote

Hi there.....I am always reading the message boards about Turkey because I am desperately trying to get into a good school.....so when I read about your student discipline problem...I had to send my two cents worth.

I used to teach in turkey for two years and those were the best years....yes I had naughty kids who ran around and refused to do the work...but it is nothing and I mean NOTHING compared to what I have to deal with NOW!!!

I teach in Saudi Arabia at a very exclusive school which caters to yes, you guessed it the Royal family.....spoilt is not the word!! They have too much money and no ambition other than to take up their titles. The worst part is that they tell you to your face that even if I fail them, they would get their moms and dads to call the school administration and lo and behold....they would tell me to pass the student.....with absolutely NO work for the entire year.

However, having said that, I still do lesson preps, activities and fun stuff for the one or two kids that are actually interested in learning.

Anyone want to trade places??? I have a great apartment!! Smile
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:56 pm    Post subject: Bring back the stick Reply with quote

Well guess what...a little bit of corporal punishment might be advisable, and before you label me a child beater, consider this.

In the 'old days' and in countries where some forms of corporal punishment are allowed the general productivity in the schools is much higher.

As someone else on the board mentioned, these kids in Turkey have been allowed to get away with the nonsense they do (in the Private schools) for years, and since the Admin. and parents do nothing and there are no consequences, the appalling behaviour will continue.

Consider also that students in their vast majority appreciate law and order. When things are allowed to get out of hand, many kids who would potentially be good students end up becoming 'contaminated' too by the unhealthy, crazy atmosphere of the English Yabanci lessons.

Of course in this day and age it is frowned upon to voice approval with regard to some forms of corporal punishment, and so be it.

In the end the Turkish Private schools will be the losers because the output of the students is so low and below what it should be with regard to the time invested. In this Koleji, for example,each student gets two English classes a day.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2338
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angry teacher throws pupils out the window

October 06 2003 at 09:03PM



Rabat - Two Moroccan schoolboys were injured on Monday when their teacher threw them out of a first floor classroom window for being too noisy, an education ministry official said.

One of the pupils, aged nine, ended up in hospital with a fractured shoulder and serious injuries to his face and head while the other, aged 10, suffered only slight injuries, the official said.

He said the teacher had warned the pair that she would throw them out if they were not quiet.

"They did not listen. They should have listened," he told reporters. "She (the teacher) suffers depression."

The official had no comment on whether the teacher would be disciplined.

Reuters
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Modern Turkey aping European/American morals Reply with quote

Of course the Morocco incident in which two students were injured is regrettable, but only teachers can understand the desperation and frustration they go through in classes with recalcitrant, 'yaramaz' students.

In Modern Turkey....the moneyed classes base their behaviour on the American model in which the child is king and allowed all kinds of favours from presents to the latest playstation, the best Nike gear etc....and you can see these kids and their gucci clad mums in the shopping centres, often devouring copious quantities of McDonalds fast food.

The parents pamper their kids, and the kids in turn develop a lazy attitude to life, because all of their desires are catered to.

In the private Koleji the parents want these kids to learn English to get ahead, but they assume that just because they have a 'yabanci' as a teacher, the language will rub off on the kid as by osmosis. What they don't tell the kids about are the words 'respect' and 'hard work.' The students are lazy and act up in class, and when the 'yabanci' teachers discipline the students with strong words the babies run home to Mum and Dad to complain about the 'nasty' yabancis who are their teachers.

The Admin. chops the head of the foreign teachers without making any effort in curbing the awful behaviours committed by their students.

In this Koleji 2-3 foreign teachers are forced to resign every year through no fault of their own but simply because the Admin. is spineless and knows that to keep the parents happy a foreign teacher is only a small pawn in the overall scheme of things.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2338
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I posted that article because I had told one of my students last week that I would do precisely that--- throw him out the window if he didn't shut up... which he has yet to do after 3.5 weeks of classes. The little *beep* has yet to do even a lick of work in my class and i see him 10 hours a week..

I am thinking I might enjoy a nice cubicle job...
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Albulbul



Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:22 am    Post subject: kids Reply with quote

Yeah. I became a teacher and then found out that I can't stand other people's spoilt brats. So I teach adults. Well, 19-year-olds.
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gelin



Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 144
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take offense to the "American" model ghost so brazenly talks about.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2338
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit baffled by the American description too as I really wouldn't say the parents' coddling of their children is American at all but rather distinctly upper-middle class Turkish. I'm not sure how else to describe it... Just because kids are spoiled rotten and allowed to get away with murder doesnt mean they're being raised in an American way- in fact, their behavior reminds me much more of Korean kids I have taught.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 6:54 pm    Post subject: American models Reply with quote

No negative stuff intended about America....what I meant was that upper middle class Turks seem to have this obsession about everything American, and they blindly follow the fashions of the States. Here at this Koleji the big thing is NBA basketball gear, and many of the kids are enrolled in the basketball clinics here. They all wear the stuff even though
many of them cannot even play the game.

In defence of the American system, at least in North America kids when they become teenagers (even those from the moneyed classes) learn about responsibility in the form of working part time after school and on Saturdays. You do not see this in Turkey...it would be beneath the Turkish families to have their kids work in menial jobs...they do not understand the concept.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11716
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 10:46 am    Post subject: Turkey Reply with quote

It sound as if "ghost" did not have a very nice time in his Turkish job.
But he has been sacked now, or as he might say,"One has lost one's employment."

Maybe he should go back to Canada ?
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1299
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:23 pm    Post subject: Positives from negatives Reply with quote

Some teachers who teach here for a year or so will gain some positives out of the negative experiences. Nowhere else, for example, will teachers have to face the shocking behaviour demonstrated by students in the Private Koleji. This will equip those teachers to teach anywhere in the world, because they will never again confront such lazy, spoilt, unmotivated individuals. Those teachers will develop classroom management skills second to none if they manage to endure their contracts to the end.

A foreign language so dissimilar to other European languages will be learnt by those who stay for at least 6 months to a year.

There are many friendly people in Turkey, especially in the non-'touristy' areas, and those friendships will be remembered fondly when the foreign teacher moves on.

For many teachers, though, they decide to move on after a year or less, because they find that the culture and general lifestyle in Turkey is basically boring. These teachers get depressed here, because most Turks they encounter always ask them the same limited questions. Most of the Turks they encounter have a very limited culture and view the world in a narrow way. Most Turks are decent people, but foreigners find that the culture here has very little to offer. People wasting time in coffee shops playing backgammon for hours on end, or others playing those stupid 'savaš oyun' games in the internet cafes are other things that irritate some 'yabanci' teachers.

A total disregard for the rights of non-smokers is another factor which exacerbates the situation for some health conscious foreign teachers. Turks will simply light up and smoke witout any thought for your comfort or that of others around them. Why should others have to endure these destructive habits?

Also disregard for common saftety rules on the roads is in evidence here. One foreign teacher who uses a bike as his main form of transportation has to make a prayer every time he sets out on the roads, because the rules of the road here are not respected. The red lights are nice decorations in many locales in Turkey.

Other teachers are disturbed by the lack of civilized behaviour demonstrated by many Turks. One teacher who resides in a Pansiyon, for example, has to endure nightly raucous conversation by the Pansiyon employees until the early hours of the morning. When this unfortunate pedagogue asked the employees to desist with their behaviour, the employees simply laughed.

Many teachers recognize that Turkey is an ok place if you want an easy, unambitious way of life. But they will also recognize that the culture here is not one where a lot of growth is possible. There are far more stimulating places in the world for teachers to work and live in. Ditto goes for the people in those other locales.
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scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11716
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:15 pm    Post subject: Teach Foreigners ? Oh no ! Reply with quote

Ghost

Your dislike of Turkey shows through here. Maybe you are one of those who chose a career in TEFL and then found they can't stand foreigners ?


Last edited by scot47 on Tue Nov 04, 2003 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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