Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Flirting with students
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
arioch36



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In which country is dating students considered acceptable? Flirting is more of a grey area. Such justification to do wrong continues to astound me. In America and England and Australia it is considered wrong. Most schools and colleges have moral clauses, some have laws. Mexico? Middle East? China??? Just in what country is it considered okay. I would love to let this thread rest, but not on your stetement . Maybe i am so insecure I need the last word, but you can have it if you can tell me which of the countries we teach in here at Dave's consider it is okay. Your statement directly implies..not implies, states that it is a matter of common cultural difference. Okay, which cultures? Please tell!
Otherwise it is just the typical; I'll justify my behaviour by saying "everyone else" is doing it.
Seriously, I do wrong all the time. This isn't self abasement or modesty, but blunt truth. But I will do my best to face myself and admit that I do wrong, and not say...it is okay to come to class unprepared because other techers do it, or schools still want to hire me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Japan it's okay.

Even in corporate Japan, to use an example, many older, senior male managers will flirt with, touch and express their attraction to much, much younger, junior female employees.

The relationship isn't exactly the same, I know. But seems similar.

In most cases, the students are adults.

I beleive they (adult students) should be permitted to do what they want to do. Who are you to tell adults not to date other adults?

A lot of adult students want to get involved with thier teachers socially and romantically and visa versa.

I think some of the so called "teachers" whose posts you've read here are a little young in the head still.

In Canada, cops date and sometimes even marry people they meet working on a file. One guy I know eventually married a woman he had pulled over for a speeding ticket.

In university, one of my professors married one of the female students in one of my classes.

A few of you here are pretty naive.

I am always amazed at how many of the "teachers" living and teaching outside their own countries lack worldly experience and true hunderstanding of human behavior.

From reading a few of these posts, I find a fair number of you "teachers" are pretentious and don't appear to have a very good grasp of the practical or real world.

It's pretty arrogant of you to tell other adults who they can and can't date.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bnix



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:13 am    Post subject: So....Sunpower Resorts to Namecalling Reply with quote

First,of course,I do not agree with his position.And his attempt to equate the situation of a teacher dating a student with a cop who pulled someone over for speeding and then begins seeing that person is obviously different...the policeman does not have the person in a class everyday.

While I disagree thoroughly with S.P'ss position,what really bothers me is his resort to namecalling at people who do not agree with him"Who the hell are you arrogant *beep* to tell adults not to date other adults?"

Frankly,I am very surprised the moderators let that through.I thought there were some standards on this forum regarding profanity. Maybe I was mistaken.

At any rate,S.P.'s sorry diatribe pretty much speaks for itself...pretty pathetic,forlorn attempt...and then he has to resort to name calling of the people who do not agree with his position. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above post is another example a "teacher" on this forum who takes himself way, way too seriously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bnix



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 645

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:25 am    Post subject: S.P.Is Entitled to His Opinions...But Reply with quote

If S.P. thinks I take myself "way,way too seriously"...he is entitled to his opinion.really,I could care less.No"skin off my back".Apparently,he wishes to put things on a personal basis.I do not intend to put things on a personal basis.It solves nothing.And his calling other people"arrogant *beep*"solves nothing,either.And I am still very surprised the moderators let that one through.Namecalling solves nothing.I do not agree with S.P's position,but I am not about to stoop to namecalling and fingerpointing.He is entitled to his opinions,but I think(hope) he can put them across in the future without using terms like"arrogant *beep*". Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's fine. If you don't agree with my thoughts, fair enough.

As well, I was not thinking of you specifically when I made my comments but of a group of people in general, whose posts that I've read.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Kent F. Kruhoeffer



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 2129
Location: 中国

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 7:56 am    Post subject: come on guys! Reply with quote

Ok, calm down now. By the powers vested in me by the State of Samara Laughing I hereby sentence all of you to cold showers and reruns of "Leave it to Beaver" followed by "The Partridge Family".

If that doesn't work, I'll start quoting famous lines from "The Brady Bunch" ... instead of Abraham Lincoln.

ItsOnlyMe,
kEnT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sunpower



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 256
Location: Taipei, TAIWAN

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, aha, haa!!

All right, all right!

Point taken.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Scott in HK



Joined: 11 Jan 2003
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Even in corporate Japan, to use an example, many older, senior male managers will flirt with, touch and express their attraction to much, much younger, junior female employees.

The relationship isn't exactly the same, I know. But seems similar.



What you are describing here seems to be sexual harassment. Which is outlawed in most workplaces. It is so good of you to take something that is considered illegal and use it to justify your position.

I am not thinking of this in moral terms at all. I was always took the dating think to be about teaching ethics. You should not do it. If you do it, the world is not going to end and it does not make you an immoral slug. But it is still wrong...not because of what you are doing with the one student but the possible ramifications to your class and the school you work for.

The adult thing kind of falls through since some of my students in the high school where I teach are 20 years old. We would just be adults having our fun so everything would be okay in Sunpower mind. Or is the fact that they are in high school cancel out the fact that they are adults.

I am not naive....not young in the head...and actually married one of my students...so I am in your real world. But I did not date my wife when she was my student. As a 'teacher', I think it is wrong. Again....not Ted Bundy wrong...not drunk-driving wrong...just wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Paul G



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 125
Location: China & USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott in HK wrote:
I am not thinking of this in moral terms at all....

I am not naive....not young in the head...and actually married one of my students...so I am in your real world. But I did not date my wife when she was my student. As a 'teacher', I think it is wrong. Again....not Ted Bundy wrong...not drunk-driving wrong...just wrong.


I think Scott has summed this up perfectly!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paul G



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 125
Location: China & USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: So....Sunpower Resorts to Namecalling Reply with quote

bnix wrote:
While I disagree thoroughly with S.P'ss position,what really bothers me is his resort to namecalling at people who do not agree with him"Who the hell are you arrogant *beep* to tell adults not to date other adults?"

Frankly,I am very surprised the moderators let that through.I thought there were some standards on this forum regarding profanity. Maybe I was mistaken.

At any rate,S.P.'s sorry diatribe pretty much speaks for itself...pretty pathetic,forlorn attempt...and then he has to resort to name calling of the people who do not agree with his position. Rolling Eyes


Bruce:

Moderating this forum is often times a judgment call in regards to editing or deleting a post. (You will note that SP's remarks in one of the above posts that were directed at you personally have been removed.) There are three fairly level-headed people - well, actually, two fairly level-headed people and myself - moderating this forum. If something makes it past all three of us, there is a reason. In this case, it is the totality of SP's post that, as you said "...speaks for itself."

We are all adults on this forum, at least in a chronological sense. Hopefully, a few mild expletives from time to time will not overly offend anyone. If these become the rule, rather than the exception, then it may become necessary to take a heavier hand in this regard. This forum is here for the free exchange of ideas. The moderators are loath to edit or censor any posts, lest this forum simply become a reflection of the moderators. We are, after all, individuals with our own thoughts and ideas and certainly don't agree with many of the things that are written here. It is our job to try to keep things reasonably civil, not to make this forum suitable for Sesame Street.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
itslatedoors



Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply to John Slat Reply with quote

Oh yeah..I forgot to reply to this one.Johnslat mentioned ethics and EFL in one of his posts.In my experience ,ethics rarely have anything to do with TEFL....That is a reality....it's usually about MONEY.Going back to the dating thing,in eastern Europe,post secondary school,nobody gives a damn if you go out with your students.It is not uncommon to have a DOS who is going out with one of the students.Consenting adults are exactly that.The more I read some of these posts,the more I'm beginning to think that some of you may have other agendas and even hang-ups.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 12098
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:28 am    Post subject: "hang-ups" Reply with quote

Sticking to some ethical code does not mean we have "hang-ups" or different "agendas". But perhaps that is too difficult for some people to grasp.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
johnslat



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 12303
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:19 am    Post subject: Ethics Reply with quote

Dear itslatedoors,
Ethics - when we're talking about matters not illegal - are subjective things. It's all a matter of opinion, really. Some may have many strict ethical guidelines; others may have few. A lot depends, I think, on one's background and experience. If others want to do things that go against my ethical guidelines ( again, where the legal question isn't involved ), well, that's their business. I don't think I should believe that my ethical standards are correct for everyone else, and I certainly don't have the " right " to hold others to them. But personally, my ethics go with me wherever I may go and they're not affected by geography. If I think something is " ethically wrong ", I maintain that belief even if others, even many others, are behaving differently. I suspect most of us have a " core of beliefs " that guide our actions, for, after all. at the end of the day, we have to live with ourselves. Whatever your ethical standards may be, or even if you have none at all, well, I wish you good luck with your life. The ethical guidelines I have are ones that my life has taught me work for me. Keeping to them lets me sleep very soundly nights.
Regards,
John
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arioch36



Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 3589

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't even begin to express my disgust that Sunpower thinks what the older Japanese corporate executives do to their young female employees is acceptable. The women hate it. In many cultures sexual harassment like this happens. In J apan it is so bad in the subway, thanx to the opinions of people like Sunpower, who casually excuse it, that the women are demanding and getting separate subway trains. I am sorry but most of the girls hate this groping, abuse of power, etc.
Studiers do show that if the abuse of a girl starts young enough, before she is a teenager, she will grow to think of it as a form of love.
So don't worry Sunpower, all you have to do is molest girls when they are real young, and they will grow up yo enjoy the behaviour you are mentioning.
It is not accpetable for a professor to date is student in Canadian colleges, or in the US UK or OZ. I'll cal you out on this. E-mail a bunch of colleges in Canada. In fact some places hold seminars to curb the abusive nature of some male teachers to prevent scandal. Oz has laws on the book about it. Most college creditation groups also have similar statements.
I would be very surprised if Japanese schools find dating students to be acceptable. I will post on the Japanese board and find out when i get a chance, or you can.
Not sure how it is naive to say wrong is wrong. Or heartlessness to the girl who are abused in Japan amazes me. I agree there are many reports of Japanese police not caring less when a women reported what happened to her on a train. Guess it makes it okay? To me that is naive, and it is you who doesn't appreciate the reality. Talk to some women about it. See how many of them like it.
I don't know anything about cops in Canada. I know in New York, there are always police officers that behave unethically. They have a great lack of respect in many places. But I not assume to know their ethical guidelines. In New York, it would be considered unethical to date a woman who is involved in a case you are investigating, I would think the professional implications are pretty obvious. They are supposed to be upholding the law, not breaking it. Yes, I know some of them do break the law all the time, and will take information from a traffic ticket and use it for their own gain. I guess that's okay in Canada
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 9, 10, 11  Next
Page 10 of 11

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC