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advice for starting out in Istanbul - please!

 
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qatherine



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Istanbul

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:37 am    Post subject: advice for starting out in Istanbul - please! Reply with quote

hi everyone,

seems that no one knows about any of the schools I asked about earlier! Is it normal to be offered positions (in private language schools) almost immediately and then pressurised to make a decision very quickly? Among others I have been offered a part time 1 month trial period starting very soon, but I am worried that if after a month I don't get on with them, it will be the end of November and no one will be hiring. Is this the case? And does anyone have anything to say about Kent School of English, Dilko Kadikoy (what's up with Levent's pushiness?), Interlang Bakirkoy, International House or Deulcom Taksim?

Also about the work visa, is it really necessary to go back to England? A couple of the schools have offered to share the cost of the flight (good thing I'm not Australian!) - is this standard? Does the going to Greece thing work well - anyone had any troubles with that?

lots of questions, any answers would be appreciated. Cheers, Katherine
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1329
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:22 am    Post subject: language school teaching Reply with quote

Language school teaching in Turkey is a good example of the 'supply-demand' concept. The pay varies a lot too depending on the school and can range from a low of 5000.000 per hour ($3.55) to 20.000.000 per hour ($14.20).

The rules for language schools have changed this year, as all of them have received new document directives from the Ministry of Education telling them what procedures they should follow to hire foreigners. It will now be more difficult for 'back packers' to simply show up and obtain a job because they speak English.

The new directives from the Ministry state that English teachers should now have appropriate qualifications including degrees in English language and teacher training. The old style B.A. plus 4 week T.E.F.L. Certificate will no longer be validated for teachers coming here.

Some schools will ask you to return to your country to do the Embassy-Consulate thing. Other schools will take the risk of employing you 'under the table' and paying you cash. This is dangerous for the school and for the teacher, because the schools can be heavily fined and the teachers can (in theory) be deported and told not to return to Turkey.

The Ministry of Education list of Yabanci teachers is not yet computerized but when it becomes so, teachers will have a harder time circumventing the laws here because it will be easier to trace them.

Everything is changing here and it is now becoming rather inconvenient to teach here with all the red tape involved.
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FGT



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 761
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect to Ghost, I doubt if any language school offers less than 15 million TL per hour (about $10).
According to my boss, who's been running a language school for about 15 years, there have been no new directives regarding type of degree: the English/Education degree stipulation applies only to K-12 schools.
Can't comment on individual schools in Istanbul, but there are often vacancies in late Autumn/Winter.
Good luck qatherine, I hope you find a good place soon.


Last edited by FGT on Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1329
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 4:23 pm    Post subject: Language school pay rates Reply with quote

Well maybe in Istanbul (where rents are higher) they offer around 15.000.000 per hour, but I can assure you that if you leave the 'Big City' there are schools where you will only be offered salaries in the 5000.000 to 7.000.000 range (or less!). In other places salaries of 10.000.000 are considered very good and you would be considered lucky to get that much.

I know this because these where the scales offered to a recently dismissed teacher.

Also ask your boss about the new directives (forms) from the Ministry in Ankara that should have landed in all the language schools in Turkey (provided of course that these language schools are actually registered in Turkey).
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FGT



Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Posts: 761
Location: Turkey

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:41 pm    Post subject: My/Your mistake? Reply with quote

I'm sorry. The topic was Istanbul so I naturally quoted the Istanbul or other big city rate. There may well be other rates paid in small towns, though I (personally) doubt as low as 5 mill. In large cities, I repeat, 15 mill. TL is the MINIMUM.

My comment re new directives holds : none received at an authorized school in a big city.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1329
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:49 pm    Post subject: Pay rates Reply with quote

I would like to believe you about the 15 million per hour rate for Istanbul, but even there I doubt that all schools pay this rate...one of the reasons...there are many unqualified backpackers willing to work for less than that and many do.

With regard to the new directives from the Ministry of Education, your school has perhaps ignored the recommendations and guidelines because they know that it would be very hard to fulfil the requirements.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghost, I work at TED, as you know, and the M. of Ed directives don't seem to apply here. I also asked the DoS at the Istanbul International House and he had heard nothing of the sort.
By the way, I have been offered jobs in language schools frequently since I arrived in Turkey over a year ago (easier to hire in-country) and none have paid less than 1.2 billion TL/24/hr week. They all offer housing. The IH pay is $1200US for a 24/hr week, plus food allowance and Turkish lessons. Not so dire...
Here in Kayseri I was offered an after school business-conversation classjob, 6 teaching hours a week (ie 45 minutes times two per night, three times a week), at 500 million/month. That's 20 million/hour. Not bad.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1329
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 3:45 pm    Post subject: New rules for foreign teachers in Turkey Reply with quote

I was shown the dreaded paper today in my new Institute and the gist of it is that the Ministry of Education is now working in conjunction with the Calisma Bakanıgı (this is the general ministry of labour or something of that nature).

Before it used to be easier because the Ministry of Education would basically approve everyone who had the B.A. plus a T.E.F.L. Certificate. Now after the Ministry of Education approves your papers they have to be sent to the Calima Bakanigi for their approval...and this ministry is more picky than the first one, so many teachers will not be approved.

Plus my school explained that the new rules with the two ministries are much more time consuming and they will think twice about employing foreigners. In many cases they will reduce their hiring practices.
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I understand, there are two things that must be considered: first, a more extensive TEFL with BA is still ok (mine was 240 hours with heaps of practicum and apparently that's cool: a 40 hr one isnt), as well, once you have your Ikamet, you're pretty much in for good, unless you do something really awful. The IH dos told me this and IH is quite reputable.

By the way, just because I haven't got a BEd, it doesn't mean I'm one of the much disparaged unqualified 'backpackers' that you seem to find distasteful. Please do not throw that term around lightly. I will not work for poor wages and I will do a quality job.
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ghost



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1329
Location: Saudi Arabia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 10:30 am    Post subject: new rules Reply with quote

The new rules will make it harder for foreigners to work in Turkey in the future. The process will take longer and will be less flexible than in the past.

I know this because I have been just been hired by a new school and they are having to go through a lot of trouble to get the paper work sorted out, despite the fact that I already possess the one year work permit from my home country consulate, and have all the required qualifications.

About back-packers....it is not a disparaging term, but put it this way, if you wanted to learn Turkish at Tömer or any other language for that matter, who would you prefer to learn from, someone with teacher training or a back-packer tourist? Yes, I know....just because you are teacher trained does not mean that you will know how to teach well, but in most cases you stand a better chance of learning a foreign language from a qualified teacher as opposed to an individual subsidizing a foreign experience with some 'teaching'....
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yaramaz



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 2345
Location: Not where I was before

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy aaaah so it was you who whallopped the fourth grader against the board!

Where are you teaching now? Any good? And why would it be hard for you to get your wrk permit? You have an MA! No one here has heard a word about this Ministry of Ed change and I've been asking around. I'm curious why this is so.

Do you have your ikamet yet?
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qatherine



Joined: 09 Oct 2003
Posts: 7
Location: Istanbul

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:00 pm    Post subject: chill out! Reply with quote

you gave it away with that one ghost! I spotted that too. Wink

Thanks for all the conflicting advice, I haven't read the post recently because I've been so busy with my New Job...

I don't know anything about this directive, but I have just been hired with a BA and a TEFL, and that by Interlang, a highly recommended school.

I was also offered jobs at other schools, and I was offered between 15 and 10 mill an hour, if that solves that issue!

thanks for the info anyway, Qatherine
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kaw



Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 302
Location: somewhere hot and sunny

PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Interlang Reply with quote

Hiya
Ok so this is a bit late in the day. Congrats on the job at Interlang. I worked for them a couple of years ago and they were great, especially when compared to ILM round the corner.
I don't know if any of the teachers I worked with are still there or not but they were a pretty ool bunch.
Have a great time and have an Efes in the Yesil for me.

K
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