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Good and Bad Supervising at HCT
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bje



Joined: 19 Jun 2005
Posts: 527

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]well it does occur to me that each region has its customs for a reason.

Yes, but the 'reasons' might not be palatable to some...

with that in mind, I wonder whether it is possible/appropriate for westerners to wear local dress in the UAE? Could I wear a headscarf even though I am not a Muslim? Would it help?

It looks silly

On another note (and this more because of the heat than the stares!) would my husband be seen as a total buffoon if he wore arab or even indian dress?

Sorry, it looks even sillier
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BOBBYSUE



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

point taken

however, we are both dark looking...more Iranian looking than UAE I guess, even though neither of us has any ME blood that we know of!

it does kinda seem like they don't wear a suit and tie out in that heat for a reason though.....
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globalnomad2



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 562

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bje says it all in a nutshell. Let me tell you, the women dress sexier in the Dubai shopping malls than they do in Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur or New York. I don't think you need to shroud your identity and try to simulate Muslims. Nobody does that here except those who convert--and then, it's only the women who switch to traditional clothes...as they are often ordered to wear abayas and scarves by their Muslim husbands. People will assume you've converted and, even worse, at the behest of your husband.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course much depends on where you live and work... and where you go in the evening... and which city you are in, but in general, you quickly learn to ignore the silliness of the bored unattached members of the male sex there.

And if you adopted local dress, they would know immediately that the way you wore it was not natural and it could draw even more attention... and likely snickers behind your back. Laughing

VS
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tiberio



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: local dress Reply with quote

getting back to the local dress discussion, i know some people who do to some extent in al ain, not to work, but in the evenings or for social occasions, and they are happy doing so. we are not talking about the local kondura style but e.g. the kuweiti one or another arab dress. as long as it is nicely tailored and fitting, you should be fine.

in dubai that would be another story though, some of my students told me that in ibn batutta mall they are constantly being stared at and tourists started taking pictures because they hadnt seen anyone wearing local dress before, so there you might want to consider wearing it and taking money for being photographed with ze germans...
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

globalnomad2 wrote:
..Let me tell you, the women dress sexier in the Dubai shopping malls than they do in Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur or New York.

Let me tell you that the above statement is not accurate.
Women in New York and Hong Kong dress sexier than in Dubai or Doha. Anyway, �sexy� dress originated in the Western countries.

Quote:
Nobody does that here except those who convert--and then, it's only the women who switch to traditional clothes...as they are often ordered to wear abayas and scarves by their Muslim husbands.

This is also not accurate, at least in the majority of Muslim countries, the majority of Muslim/Non Muslim women who wear abayas and scarves are wearing them by conviction and not by �force� or �order�.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we in the west developed the traditional belly dancing outfit too since we are the 'source' of all sexy clothing. Apparently 007 hasn't spent much time in the Dubai malls... or seen how many of the local women in Kuwait dress on the street or in the malls... or been to Rabat to see how the local women dress. In all three of those places, I was often (usually?) the most conservatively dressed on the street, and I was wearing 'western clothing' and have never owned either an abaya or a veil.

It is only in KSA that you would find NON-Muslim women wearing abayas and scarves because they are basically forced to - and in the other Gulf countries, it was a few odd ducks who thought they were being cool while everyone, local and expat, considered them bizarre at best. Only converts (and locals, of course) wear them as a part of their daily dress, and yes some converts are forced by their husband and/or his family. To pretend otherwise is to be naive. But, I agree that the vast majority of converts wear it by choice. For the local women, it is what is considered normal daily dress to them and most wear it. But...

If you go into any university in the Gulf that is private and sexually integrated, you will see a wide variety of female dress among the students - from the 'sexiest' western styles to the abaya and veil. But I never worked with any western teacher, male or female, who wore local dress/hijab with the exception of one convert in Kuwait and it was forced upon her by her husband. In fact, almost none of the Muslim teachers wore hijab at all and none wore an abaya. (Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, Pakistani or Moroccan)

And in another agreement to GN2, I worked with quite a few Western male converts too and none of them wore a dishdasha/thobe in public or at work. I can't say what they wore in the privacy of their own homes.

VS
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007



Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 2684
Location: UK/Veteran of the Magic Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

veiledsentiments wrote:
..Apparently 007 hasn't spent much time in the Dubai malls... or seen how many of the local women in Kuwait dress on the street or in the malls... or been to Rabat to see how the local women dress.


VS, I spend more than two years working and living in UAE, and visited most of the malls and have seen all variety of women dresses, but still relatively, the women dress in the Gulf countries is not as the one in the Western societies (from the point view of scale and generality). Also, the people in malls are mostly foreigners and not the locals.

Quote:
In fact, almost none of the Muslim teachers wore hijab at all and none wore an abaya. (Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian, Pakistani or Moroccan)

They are minority, and do not represent or reflect the whole society in most of the above Islamic countries. Just to give an example, In Egypt more than 75% of Muslim women wear the hijab.
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What they represent is what we are discussing... the people that we will encounter during our work in the Gulf.

It is irrelevant what percentage of Muslim women wear hijab in Egypt.

VS
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globalnomad2



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 562

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too have known a western woman, a young British lecturer who was extremely attractive and self-assured, who fell in love with a Muslim and wound up wearing an abaya after she married. Naturally, she had to convert if she wanted to marry him. I never butted in her private business but it was painfully obvious to me that she didn't like wearing the darned thing.

I also have a German woman friend who spent some time in Egypt and had a boyfriend in Cairo which was fine until he soon started trying to browbeat her into covering her hair and all that rubbish. And she's not even Muslim, obviously, and Cairo is not Riyadh. She had a few choice words for him that I can't repeat after he yelled at her to cover her hair and respect the religion. Like me, she does not respond well to religious arrogance and theocratic edicts from people who have no right to bully her...and this scenario has not instilled in her heart any profound desire to return to the Middle East...especially as this was around the time of the cartoon-related embassy burnings and placards in Europe reading thiings like "Europe, your day will come," etc...
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veiledsentiments



Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually there is no requirement for a woman to convert to marry a Muslim man. I know many women married to Muslims from various countries who have never converted and never intend to. It is different for men, women are scripturally restricted from marrying non-Muslims. So it is very rare to find a non-convert married to a Muslim woman. (though I have known a couple)

VS
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BOBBYSUE



Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

while everyone is here on this thread, may I ask another question? Very Happy

I have noticed that on the new-look HCT recruitment site, in the section marked "professional", there are various positions marked co-ordinator (eg of work readiness, of college events, of finance, etc)

does anyone have any idea of where these positons would fit on the salary scale? Same as teachers? between teachers and supervisors?

THANKS!!
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globalnomad2



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posts: 562

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me put it another way: naturally, there was pressure from the family and hubby for her to convert. That's what I meant by "had to." She did not really want to convert, I'm sure. That's not to say every male demands conversion of his wife. As for what happened to my friend in Egypt, it happens all the time, pal. Believe it. Did I say anything about interpreting holy books? I am talking about what people do.
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