Job Discussion Forums

[Shakhbut]

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[sheepshead]

What information do you have on the �proposed� accommodation? Is it a Housing Development Board (HDB) apartment? If so, it is illegal if it is privately owned with the possible exception of ownership of the HDB apartment / accommodation by the school.

Or, is it a nice privately owned apartment not related to the HDB regulations? Or is it on campus? I believe that you should get full information on the accommodation and ask the school to give you a complete list of foreign teachers at the school and their E-mail addresses so you may contact them for their opinion.

I have not personally heard of any thing bad about International Schools in Singapore, but then that does not mean that all places are Utopia.

Have you seen photos of the outside or inside of the accommodation? Are NEW electrics (T.V., stove, lamps etc) and or gas appliances (stove) included? Is the air conditioner new or is it the very old type which uses a lot of electricity to drive the compressor? What about bedding? Are NEW beds and bedding included in the deal? What about cooking utensils?

Are utilities included in the deal? What information do you have? Do you get return airfares at the end of your contract?

If indeed the figure that you quote is correct and you get good accommodation for free and free tuition at the school for your child / children, then it may be a fair deal. However, I should consider the salary should be a little higher than on offer depending on your credentials.

Maybe a talk to other teachers at the school will tell you if the package offered is good or not. I have heard of some top International schools offering a lot more for teachers with top credentials. How good are your credentials?

Feel free to PM me for any other information to questions that you may have.

Caveat Emptor!

[englishtraveling]

Thanks for the help there. The accomodation is on campus and I was told it is a 2 bedroom place with all utilities included. I asked a lot of details about what exactly is provided and am still waiting for a reply.
From talking to a few people, the pay is on the low side. I was told that it should be at least $1000 more. A friend of mine lives there and told me he was offered $7000 with schooling but no housing. That sounds more reasonable to me.

[k1w1]

You didn't say whether this was an offer through the MOE, but I'm assuming it is.

It is not enough money for a family to live on here, even with the housing paid for. You would make ends meet, but there would never be luxuries like dinners out or movies, and your savings would be minimal. Forget about a car, a maid, international school for your child... (obviously none of those are essential...)

Sorry to be a downer, but unless you are really keen to come to Singapore, I wouldn't take it.

An international school would pay at least $1000 more per month and would pay a housing supplement on top of that to someone hired overseas. In fact, you would make more money in a tuition centre, and you wouldn't have to live on site.

The good news is that there are a few places still looking for ESL teachers for August. Be quick though!

Oh, just a thought, but is the school taking payments for your utilities, rent (and extras), and then giving you the "difference"? It's not normal to have utilities covered so I wonder if they are trying to screw your salary down by telling you this is paid as part of your package...

[TeacherSg]

$3,500 plus an apartment and all bills paid is not as bad as it sounds. If you live on campus, then you save on the taxi fare. I've been living in Singapore for about 20 years and know the international school scene quite well. It is true that your salary is a little low, but if the international school is just starting out with few students, then it is definitely operating in the "red". I know of one international school in Singapore that fits that description. I might give the school a try and see how it goes. It can be an interesting experience to be at the beginning of a school's development and have an impact on it. The new international schools in Singapore, like ERIS and CNIS are examples of that. The others, like SAS, OFS, UWC, and Tanglin are the old timers, and they definitely pay quite well.

I hope this helps.

[dolmie]

Housing is a big issue here this year. In fact, condos where most expats live, are forecasted to increase 30% this year. I have friends who have had their luxury apartment rent almost double--so they moved. Expats are expected to pay top dollar for nearly everything in Singapore. Foreign companies often have generous housing allowance, way more than teachers get. Singaporeans renting luxury condos also pay a lot. I have seen 1600 SD per month quoted frequently, but real estate agents are now asking upwards of 2200 to 2400 SD per month all over most of the city right now, with 1600 far away. There are HDB estate flats available, but go quickly, and you have to be here to get them.

I was making less than 4000 SD here per month and it was okay--however, an experienced teacher should be able to make upward sof 7000 SD per month with benefits and housing allowances.

[k1w1]

An experienced teacher at a top international school, hired from overseas and brought here on a full expat package doesn't make $7k plus housing and benefits. Most of the top international schools are selective, and therefore probably will not have ESL students anyway. So an ESL teacher has next to no chance of making money like that here!

Agree with what you said about housing though. It has gone beserk here and it's very hard finding housing for less than $2000.

[dolmie]

Sorry Kiwi,

I'm not usually one to make up facts. Pure EFL jobs will not pay like that.

You should ask teachers at the IB schools in town what they make, and based on your response to my post, you will be very surprised. There is a range though.

If it makes you feel better, my salary was not even close to that and I did work at an IB school. It doesn't make me feel better.

[k1w1]

I teach at an IB school. I have friends who work in the "top paying" schools here, (not all of which are IB). Not one of them makes $7000 a month, plus housing and benefits. Maybe some really experienced teachers with exceptional qualifications and very long standing jobs in the schools are making that, but honestly, I would be very surprised... You're suggesting a total salary package of something like $9-10k, which I just don't imagine happening. Of course, if I'm wrong I would love to know where exactly these places are, so I can start getting my CV ready!!

[Shakhbut]

Really, k1w1? I must have totally the wrong impression about international schools in Singers, then.
So what's the range in somewhere like UWC, or OFS?

[dolmie]

Thanks Shakbhut,

To be candid Kiwi, my brand new IB school has a range of 3500-5000 per month with everything (please don't apply there-->the place is a mess).

Experienced teachers make much more at the places Shakbhut mentioned. There are a few other schools I would add to Shakbhut's list. We must accept that on some level people are cagey about questions on salary, and not always honest or forthcoming in response. Schools protect this information as well, which is to be expected.

When I found out that other IB schools had packages that were so so much better than mine, I was not happy about it, but I was a newbie to Singapore--so be it. Now, I know better--now, you know too.

[k1w1]

See, this is a strange situation we're discussing really. The top paying schools (UWC, Tanglin, SAS, GESS and OFS) will likely not hire someone with less than five years experience. UWC, Tanglin and SAS have very small ESL departments as they're exclusive schools. These three and GESS are the "trust" schools, meaning they are not run for profit. This usually means they value their staff more and are more likely to offer better money. OFS hires less experienced teachers, but you will probably be offered more like $5k a month.

If you work in a place like these (or an international school elsewhere) for say, 10 years, and have some fantastic qual's you could make $7k+benefits. This is not normal though, and as I pointed out, most schools do not pay this and of those that do, they may not have ESL departments (or have really small ones), which is fine if you have another teaching subject to offer at the same time... I would say most teachers here are making around $5-6k a month, some with additional housing benefits too - which are anything from $1.5k to 3.5k.

If you're already in Singapore, you will have to be something pretty amazing to get housing benefits included. Most places will hire you as a "local hire" which means you're on your own. The good news is that schools will prefer to hire someone who is already here... catch 22, really.

For teachers with children, the issue gets more complicated as not all schools will allow staff to send their children to the school for free. Therefore a top salary may not be as good as it sounds when you lose $15,000 a year paying for your kids to go to school. A lower paying school might offer a lower salary but has better benefits, meaning that you're actually better off at the end of the day.

I hate to say this, but ESL teachers are a dime a dozen here. The chances of getting hired to work in a top school (where I imagine there is very little movement in their current ESL staff), or getting paid a high salary and housing benefits are slim.

[dolmie]

I hear ya kiwi... I don't disagree with anything you say. The bulk of teachers in Singapore are working well below the figures I've been talking about.

Teachers with IB experience, 2 sought after teachables and 7+ years in high school should do pretty well in Singapore and certainly should be shopping around and negotiating for salary.

[glasshouses]

Interesting discussion.

I have personally seen a document from one IB school in town. I requested their salary breakdown and someone's PA sent it to me by accident I can only assume.

I have been teaching for 13 years by the way. At that school, with my family allowance, I would have been making about 9700 a month. Does that end your conjecture?

In that, I have been making 5K per month, I was shocked.

In the IB community in Singapore, although I agree with Dolmie that people are cagey about salary, many of us assume that the worst paying IB schools in Singapore are Chinese International School, Global Indian School, and the Canadian International School. There may be more on that list, but I have only been here 8 months.

Let's be honest here. If most teachers are making 2000-3000 per month in town, people are not going to tell you that they are make 9700K per month.

[Shakhbut]