Job Discussion Forums

[quoc_viet03]

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of the so-called "reverse racism" in Vietnam, in regards to hiring of English teachers? I have heard from various people that most English schools refuse to hire anyone who looks Asian, despite the fact that a lot of them are born in the US (or Europe, etc) and hold decent credentials. I myself am Asian-American, as both my parents are Vietnamese, yet would very much like to teach English in VN as a long-term career despite being anon-caucasion. I was born in New York and plan on getting an MA in English + a CELTA certificate. What are my chances? I would think I need at least $800 USD per month to survive...

[Kerry]

Aloha from Hawaii,

I've taught ESL in V N in 1995 & 1996 in Saigon & Vung Tau. I have a B.Ed. with a business education major/English minor & have some eleven years of secondary teaching experience both in the US & in Micronesia.
I can see of no reason why your candidacy would be 'denied' because of your heritage. If you can speak ENGLISH clearly (that is, pronouncing your 'Rs & Ss' as a US native {caucasian} would). There also should be no problem with your being able to earn $800/mo. Of course, since you are Vietnamese (having knowledge of the mindset {and culture}, you might be 'expected' to accept remuneration!! Hopefully, you fully under-stand the ramifications of that analogy.

Please let me what you decide & you'd like more 'input' of my experience in Viet Nam.

Kerry

[quoc_viet03]

[Kerry]

Aloha again,
My apology for NOT proofreading my initial response to your query. I meant to say that 'since you are Vietnamese, you might be expected to accept LESS remuneration for teaching ESL due to the mindset in VN'!
To address your response question: I am caucasian with a thick mustache & thinning hair; however, my eyes look quite Asian. Not to be redundant, but my gut feeling is that you would not have too much difficulty landing a job IF your conversational skills were comparable to a native speaker. In my experience with the Vietnamese, they tend to be lazy about enunciation of certain letters (P, V, S, etc.). I was very adept at stressing the need for them to 'work diligently' to 'sound' these letters when speaking, i.e., {1975 - they'd say "fi" rather than "fiVe"}
I remain very good friends with a former student, & we communicate reasonably often. He has indicated recently that employers are now looking for more in terms of training/education & CERTIFICATION in teaching ESL. Other than that change, schools still want (& are enamored by) NATIVE SPEAKERS. I assume you have seen ads on this site for ILA, etc. They recruit regularly & offer $950 - $1250/mo. for the basic 25-hours/wk. contact time. Generally, hourly rates run anywhere from $9-16/hr. Please do let me know how it goes for you! A final bit of advice: when interviewing, be aggressive but respectful -- sell your good speaking skills; if it is evident that you speak 'like a native', they surely should be eager to hire you. I would be!
By the way, I'd like to go back; might you want to start a school w/me?
Kerry

[quoc_viet03]

Hey Kerry, thanks for the clarification. Ah yes, reduced remuneration, sounds quite expected! Now when you say Vietnamese, do you mean Vietnamese in looks or in name? In name I am Vietnamese, but in looks I can pass for Chinese or even mixed (w/ American some say), something I might try to play off if jobs look scarce. I think my conversational skills are adequate... I've spent all my life in New York. Now you mention that employers are now looking for training/education in ESL instruction... I was thinking of getting an MA in English (I like literature) but now think perhaps an MA in TESL would be more practical. Do you think it would make a difference which one I choose to do?

Sure, starting a school sounds interesting, I was actually contemplating opening up a language school. Only thing is I'm barely out of college, don't know if partnering up with a kid like me is a wise business choice!

[Kerry]

Quoc,
I'm going to be 'frank'! It seems as tho' you're driven to get the advanced degree in ESL. The certification in TOEFL, etc. is more important, in my opinion; however, I still have some concerns. Firstly, were you born in the US (my guess is that you were)? If so, you would have far fewer problems than someone who 'escaped' the country (if you know what I mean).
In any case, would you please be willing to give me your home phone number (tell me of the best time to call you - we're five hours earlier than you in NY)? I'd like to talk with you without the general audience looking in...if you're amenable to that...or email me directly. I'll look forward to hearing from you. KERRY

[fina]

Hey there,

I'm Vietnamese, and although I have spent the last 25 years of my life in Canada (I'm now 30), I am beginning to feel a bit anxious about my job prospects in Vietnam. I feel like I look Vietnamese, but most people have told me that I look like a mix. I'm currently in Korea and I've taught here for 2 years. I have 2 bachelors degrees, TESOL certification, and a decent resume. I have to admit though, it's hard to even get to the interview phase to prove that my language skills, especially the accent, is on par with someone who is caucasian. I am one of the Vietnamese who "fled" the country in the '70s. I have a ticket booked for Jan 3, arriving in HCMC. So, are my chances of getting a job shit? Any advice or input would be great.
Thanks.

[quoc_viet03]

Hi fina, you said you faced discrimination in Korea? I heard in Japan they don't discriminate as much, and thought Korea might be the same. May I ask what BAs you hold? I know I sound a bit pessimistic but all hope is not lost. Although you were born in Vietnam, you hold good credentials and, most importantly, solid experience. My uncle, who also "fled the country", did find work in Hanoi teaching at a university and also was slated to teach at a private language school. The university job he obtained because he had a masters in English and was also doing thesis word for his PhD in linguistics... the pay is peanuts though. The language school gig he got from personal connections... it was pure luck that he got the job for $20 USD an hour (unheard of for any Asian, foreign-born or not). He's told me that Asian-faced teachers barely get interviews and if they do, the jobs we get are around the $10-12 USD range, although I figure if times are bad (over-saturation of ESL market with caucasion teachers) that could markedly drop to $8-10 an hour (which is what I heard happened over the summer, not sure though). When I asked if it mattered whether or not one was born abroad, he said it didn't make a difference... it is the physical appearance of the applicant that matters! I also spoke to an American-born Vietnamese guy online who decided to return to VN to look for work as an English teacher... he had a lot of trouble for a few months and finally ended up getting various part-time jobs. Not sure how he's doing now as I've lost contact with him.

All in all that's all I know for now! I am guessing the fact that you were born in VN might be a slight disadvantage, but only slightly. I think interpersonal skills, what you look like, and connections are what really matter. I wish you the best of luck, it's awesome to see other Viet Kieu who are teaching ESL!!! Let me know how it goes, I'm going to be in HCMC a month after you arrive.

[Lee_Marrero]

My boyfriend works here in Vietnam with me, he is Viet-Aussie 20 years in Sydney, I am white american I earn 1,400 US per month, he earns less than 1/3, at my school at least he is viewed as just another vietnamese" not up too par with natives. Not that that is my opinion I am sure there are 1000's of Asian-Americans who are a hell of alot better than me in esl education. It is tough. Better to teach in Korea if you are duly qualified.

Lee

[fina]

Hey there,

Quoc, I have one degree in Botany and another in Environmental Science. What I am hoping for is that my experience will help, but if we're not even given interviews.....It's bad in Korea, but I had some decent job offers even when I had no experience. I think I was just 4th or 5th choice so it took people some time to get back to me. I heard that the kyopos (Korean-Americans) are even more dicriminated against.

Lee, since you're in Vietnam already, do you know of some schools that may care less about the Asian appearance? Got any advice about getting the interview? Do the foreign owned schools discriminate as well? I guess I think if you've ever lived in North America, then you should know that there are people of all races who speak with the "native" accent. Maybe I am thinking too much like a westerner in that sense.....

Thanks for the input...

[quoc_viet03]

[Cali]

When I was there I found out that if look Asian at all most schools will discrimate agaist you... you may not get a job, or get lower pay, but there is hope... if you can find a school with a foreign person hiring (yes this does happen, my friend Nick, a whilte, Brishish, male, did it for a year) then they will or should hire you at the same rates as the other foreign teachers, and once one school is doing it other well to. I can say this because I talked with the Vietnamese Americian that Nick hired and once she was working for him she could get better playing jobs at other schools. Good Luck.