Job Discussion Forums

[ockyocky]

I am working in Ukraine now and applied for this school some while back.
The reply I got back was that they only want Americans (I am Australian) working for them because different accents confuse the students too much:)) Oh my god, I could not stop laughing.
Anyway, they advertise a lot in the Metros but heard from students that their conversation classes are pretty crap but who knows

[dtomchek]

Hey:

I was in the Peace Corps (Poland 98-00) and they generally push for older folks. More experience and maturity I guess. I have a great job teaching in the US but would not mind taking a couple of years off to go back into the Peace Corps and head to The Ukraine. It is the only way I would do head back to the area. Yeah I know the process is long and cumbersome and something of a drag but the benefits are amazing. Having the deep pockets of the Federal Govt and your disposal for medical reasons was great. Readjustment allowance was more than I could have saved there. You get preferential hiring by the Feds after returning for 18 months. Grad schools have a tendency to like it on the app (so I have heard). No reall downside and a whole lot of upside once you are there.

Anyway, that is what I would do.

Dave

[FM3]

I suppose I'm nuts, but I want to get my TEFL and teach in Ukraine. My Russian is pretty good and I can read Ukrainian to some extent (I want to learn Ukrainian too)..been there many times....

I thought of the Peace Corps too..but they refused to send me to Ukraine...said they don't send people where they want to go but to a different location...

Figures, doesn't it? Government..give 'em a guy who speaks the language, has been there many times, knows the culture, can handle conditions and food there, won't freak out due to culture shock and homesickness...but no, they'll send me to Africa or Latin America....they know better than we do.....

It's a shame, really. I love the idea of the Peace Corps.

Anyway, I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do about teaching in Ukraine. I've read so many different opinions. Some make it seem like a disaster to want to do this.

Should I get my certification in Kiev? Seems to make sense, since I want to teach in the country. Others tell me Prague is a better place to learn.

Then I think, "Well, perhaps Russia; I've been there too and I have the language down pretty well..."

And then I read the nightmare posts about Russia.....

What a mess

[MGreen]

[/quote]I thought of the Peace Corps too..but they refused to send me to Ukraine...said they don't send people where they want to go but to a different location... [quote]

I'm surprised they said that to you, I worked for the State Department in Kiev and meet a lot of PCVs who had chosen Ukraine as their first choice and got it. It's more about the needs of the country and their request for PCVs at a particular time. Last time I was there, they were cutting back on the number of PCVs, and Russia (last I checked) wasn't on the list, hasn't been for some time now.

If you're qualified, apply to the English Language Fellow Program, they have positions for both Russia and Ukraine.

[FM3]

Thanks for the reply!

I don't think I'm qualified; my education is not in English. It's a big disappointment to me now.

I've thought about teaching in Ukraine or perhaps Russia for a few years now, ever since my first visit. These places just fascinate me. At the time, I didn't do anything. The whole notion seemed crazy (maybe it is!).

But, I'm going to loose my career, not just my job, but my career, to outsourcing. So, perhaps I am lucky that I speak Russian and have an interest in doing something like this. I will soon have no choice but to do something. My education is useless here now, being relevant only to my career. At 46, I'm in a bad situation.

But I am ignorant; I do not know what possibilities even exist for a person such as me. Will I earn my certification and then find that there's no work for me? Or will every job I find be a nightmarish ordeal such as the ones I've read about here? Do I really know what I'm getting into here? And how much choice do I have, anyway? I've become a White Elephant in the USA. In a few months, I must make a move.

So maybe it is stupid of me to even ask about anything. I may have no real choice. Still, I'm hoping to find something to help me out, set me straight, give me some direction.

[Atlantean]

FYI, ALC doesn't hire anyone older than their early thirties, or so I was told by the owner Jonathan Pernick. His reasons for doing so were somwhat humourous. Seems he had a problem with older male teachers dating the students, so he won't hire them. He also implied that I was a middle aged lecher as well, simply I suppose because I want to teach English overseas. How did he know? I was all set to show up in class with my raincoat and bag of hershey bars to better intice all those young Ukranian women.
I decided it was better to get a CELTA and go to work for a legitimate school instead.
My experience has taught me that when a company is solely looking for youth and no qualifications, they want people who are easily manipulated, and exploitation usually follows.
Maybe ELC is legit, but I got some really strange vibes from this guys e-mail.

[FM3]

I queried ALC a while ago, and received the same sort of response. It seems weird to me, but to each his own. A bit insulting, actually, to assume that people are simply lechers. Oh well...

[bje]

[Old Lion]

I was a teacher at this school in Kiev. My notes. And visited the one in Dnepropetrovsk
Note: I have a BA, TESOL and have taught for 5 years ESL.
1. The students are very unsatisfied with what they are being taught. They learn nothing. But I guess most of ESL is the entertainment business anyway http://www.englishdroid.com/node/63
2. Many many complaints from the students "they learn noting"
3. The Director Mr Pernick is about 5 bolts shy of a full load. And yes as one poster pointed he like single young men...but thats a two edged sword..yeah the Older men do like the women..but so do the young "they are just more naive, but the younger guys tend to drink more"
4. Most of your teachers are losers or kids in the states and all are single..Mr Pernick likes single teachers, if married don't apply. "the school requires no qualifications, no degree, no TESOL" Most teachers are like 21 years old with no experience's in life non the less teaching..Most teachers in the states still live at home with mommy and daddy. Most of them just go to have a cool time. I speak Russian and most student crack jokes at the teachers...
The older teachers from whom I meet are like former janitors at High school in the states..lost their jobs looking up girls dresses...I have never meet so many perverted old men as the teachers of the schools American Language finds. So in some regards I guess I can understand Mr Pernicks ways of not wanting to hire older men.
5. Most good teachers leave....I know very few who stay longer then 6 months ..don't believe go look at the picture on the site..rarely will you see a teacher teaching 3+ terms. Their may be a few fair-good teachers...I meet 2 of them in Kiev.
6. Alcohol...I think that what lures the 18 year old Male teachers..they can drink in Ukraine ..as they cant in the USA...and boy do they ever. yes the school has 18 year old male teachers...no qualification but a US Passport, and a warm body.
7. The school give bonus's for retention....they have a extremely hard time retaining students...In Ukraine the ave monthly wage is 350 USD and a 7 week term is about that in cost...the students who are serious find anouther school like IH or London School of English to learn.
8. The pay is good at 1,000 a month "Most UA schools pay around 600-700 USD a month", and the rent was OK. This is what gets the clowns to the school..Oddly its the best paying school in Ukraine for its teachers.
9. For a teacher or fresh out of high school USA guy its ideal...they don't have to prepare lessons..well 99% of the teachers I meet don't..don't need a degree, TESOL who needs that?? Experience-your joking.....They make 3X more money then the ave 35 year old man in Ukraine. They get drunk daily,try to flirt with their students..work about 22 hrs a week "pretty much just showing up to BS so yeah for a teacher they can have a pretty good time..for the students..its a total waste of money...Oh next point..
10. Students....Well lets say a class is 10 students..They get Mr Thomas a 18 year old male from Calf. He talks all slang like 'Cool man thats like great, bogus dude"..He shows up smelling like a bottle of vodka..His dress attire is one you would see a beach bum wearing. He has a fresh out of puberty goatee going. He's a likable kid, but gets on your neaves after a few days. As for teaching, if your a Ukrainian student you would learn more English buying a Sherk Video.
Then the other class has Mr Roberts, a 39 year old internet porn addict, who was currently working at Wal Mart..his freind sent him the Add of the American Schools of language ...He seen he could meet those women he was seeing online, and writing via Mail Order....get a free plain ticket..make the same $$ he made in the states at Wal Mart stocking selves..he applies...and BOOM like magic he is a teacher of English overnight. He is you well know teacher of teaching students dirty works,and loves to tell of his "made up " adventures in the sack. his students find him repulsive. He comes to class in Old Levis, a soiled stained T-shirt, unshaved, wearing a ball cap.
Lastly you have Mr Paul's, He is 22 years old, has 1 year of college. Was working in the USA at Burger Hut..Somehow found the job add "maybe here of Dave's ESL" for ALC..He's a fair guy..not bad..kind of low key..He applies and gets the job...He has no teaching experiences, and is somewhat shy and backwards. Has a hard time making friends. Is Monotone and his lessons tend to dwell on grammar. His students tend to play with their mobile phones during his lessons.
By the last week of the semester week 7..about 1 of the 10 students show up for both Mr Roberts,Mr Paul's and Mr Thomas's classes. Yes true story mind you "names are just different" Both Mr Roberts and Thomas..get sacked.
The students...they find some other school.
11. If your a loser man, a young 18 year old guy, in the USA, or just single looking for a easy job...Single under 45....cant find a job..want to booze it up....have no qualifications in teaching....just have to show up 22 hours a week....can flirt with women....get a good pay for the Ukraine.....get help with the flight over to Ukraine and back...then yeah its a pretty good bet. I guess if I were 18 again..I would probably apply for a job..But if your like most of us who do care for the students, and love your job as a ESL teacher..then..well thats your call.
NOTE: I worked at the school for 2 terms..and I was well respected teacher...I refuse to use this school on my CV..it has a bad name in Ukraine.

[digitaux]

Haha, sheesh. Well, Old Lion, your 10 points are actually one point and you sound like the stereotype of middle age, arbitrarily hating every aspect of youth you no longer possess. Nevertheless! The information you provide is (somewhat) helpful in providing the "real story" about the ALS in the Ukraine, and thank you for the message.

p.s. You'd be much more convincing in your argument if your own English wasn't riddled with errors.

[digitaux]

O.L. or any others who have trained or taught with this service:
Do they pay on time, do they provide accommodation, and how difficult is it to find housing if not?
Thank you for any information.

[Old Lion]

Hi all.
well I am not overly worried about my English on a internet forum...so whatever...I also teach converstion English.
OK, I was late paid once, but for pay I didnt have a problem with that.
American Language doenst provide a apt..the 1,000 USD is all..so it cost now around 200-400 USD for a fair..non crap hole flat in the city near the school...they will help you look..
so after the flat your making around 600-750 USD a month take home.
Cost is for foods..I figured 200 USD a month...phones-bills 50 USD a month "depending on your calls" cafes and extra other..
Lets put it this way you'll likely not be banking too much money.
I thought the job included 1,000 plus apt and bills paid..NOT so! when its all said and done...a fair apt in kiev is 400USD a month "if you find one for 200 a month its in a crap hole and old soviet style"
I am now in Poland..better pay, better flat..less headache....
You need more then 600 USD a month in Kiev to get by..your life style is on par with locals..Most Kievites take home now around 600-750 USD a month..and they have their flat already..I think if the flat was included 1,000 a month would be OK.

[El]

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[digitaux]

El,
I'm not Mr. Pernick, I was looking for a balanced view of the school because I was considering it, like the original poster. Old Lion's argument was helpful, but far too vindictive and ad hominem to be taken too seriously. Like yours. The same kind of stereotypical name-calling like in the "Gopnik" article is as valuable as most stereotypical name-calling, as valuable as baseless contention anywhere. Since Old was the only one who responded, I then responded to him. Etc etc. Old's response was helpful in seeing how vitriolic one school could make a person, but good lord was it not "extremely informative," "thought provoking" or, ha, "insightful." Get real, El. None of those words apply in the least. And when you spend eleven (pronounced "one") points railing against young people for being young, you do somehow seem like an old miser who's mad at being old.

I don't have leanings towards ALC, obviously, but I am considering the school fairly, instead of preemptively despising it for baseless reasons. If I'm "middle aged," though, wouldn't I "outshine the youth a million to one?" Am I old or young, El? Which age have you assigned me so you can then assign your predetermined enmity? Am I an old man for you to hate or a young man for you to hate? You've got to at least make up your mind when you make a fool of yourself like this.

Heh, "I reflect that you came out at him in such a derogatory manner because you yourself were more insecure about your own issues, and decided..." Now who is this statement about?

Thanks for the post, though. It has lots of comedy itself, i.e. "manhood" "Now we get to the meat and potatoes," "you truly gave Mr Pernick the upper hand...all because of the spelling errors", "Shame on you," purposefully trying to confuse the Google bots by writing the acronym wrong...and so on and so forth.

Sheesh--shame on YOU, El. For goodness sake, if YOU're going to attack (which you do, verbosely), at least organize your badattack. Which am I "attacking?" Spelling, character, grammar, old people, young people, myself, what? What is more shameless than judging a person because of his weight, because he looks like some racial epithet you think is funny?

If Old WAS typing as best he could, he shouldn't be an English teacher. That's just observable fact.

Again, I wasn't attacking or counterattacking, I was looking for experience and information. I wasn't advertising or arguing for the school, obviously again--so, so obviously--but I also wasn't going to hate it because of a single "disgruntled" take on it.

[El]

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