Job Discussion Forums

[bsjess]

I'm going to completely ignore the "us" vs "them" comment and try to answer forest1979's question. Even for Americans legally coming to France the paper work is a teeth-grinding nightmare. And the process is only getting harder. Ten or so years ago, French citizenship was automatic for Americans married to French citizens. Those days are long gone. Just getting a carte de sejour takes months of paper work, standing in line in stuffy immigration offices, being treated very very poorly, and an obligation to renew the process periodically. Many of my American friends here (married to French citizens) often ask themselves why they bother. So, in a nutshell: it ain't easy going to the States and it ain't easy comin' to France.

So if it's a hassle for legal Americans, I don't even want to think about the hassle for those who try to get into the system without a French spouse. [/u]

[tsneds01]

[mdk]

Just to bring up a point of information. One of my teachers once told me that the French term for red tape is "Chinoiserie" I hope I spelled that correctly.

I've always been treated very well while I have been in France. I just remember Hercule Poirot (who is a Belgian actually) and try to act like him as opposed to a middle-American drooling boor. It has worked well for me.

[No Moss]

[mdk]

[PeterBar]

Nimes was famous for jeans = Denim = De Nimes = cloth from Nimes.

Marseille is better for Pastis, or Pernod.

[redsoxfan]

[spiral78]

I should have qualified the statement. I myself have worked within the EU for the past ten years and am an American citizen.

I think it's true, however, if I say that it's very difficult for English teachers to get legal working papers unless they've got specialist qualifications, local contacts, and other leads in.

I also believe that it's fair to say that a US citizen with a 30-day introductory TEFL certification and some experience is highly unlikely to get any legal 'in' to most of the Western European countries.

That's the audience to whom I was speaking. You're right - my original (and now, oft-quoted statement) was an overreaction to having worked with one too many starry-eyed newbie absolutely certain that some legal route will appear specially for him/her.

The post to which I was responding (if I recall correctly) was about a newbie American teacher with an MA TESL/TEFL but no experience who wanted to work for a year or two in Spain or France and then return to the States, obviously to work within the field. I do believe that employers in the ESL field in the States ARE aware of EU hiring laws in general, and would wonder how this newbie teacher got legal workng permits.

I agree that if one is planning to work in some different field, or even at a private language school level, employers are unlikely to know or care whether one had worked illegally.

[spiral78]

By the way, I'm obviously aware that the standards vary for different jobs. Engineers are currently in short supply and EU citizen hiring laws have been relaxed in their case, for example.

But positions for English teachers, particularly at the basic-qualified level, are generally considered limited to EU citizens only, there being plenty of qualified Brits to fill these positions in Spain, France, and Italy, and etc.

[chromium]

[spiral78]

chromium, of course you're absolutely right. I wrote the sweeping generalization in a bit of a snit at the constant misinformation. The general attitude sometimes seems to be that 'there's gotta be a loophole for me' and/or 'c'mon over - you'll never get caught!'