Job Discussion Forums

[mjed9]

So what are people's thoughts on this?

Conspiracy by China?
Conspiracy by the DPP?
Conspiracy by the KMT?
Asexual loner suffering from paranoid delusions whose mother didn't love him?

[Steiner]

I'd rule out China. If China had sent someone to kill Chen, they'd do a better job than hitting him in the gut and nicking the VP's knee. Maybe it's a patriotic mainlander, though. This week in class I had a kid say he wanted to go to Taiwan and shoot president Chen.

And to think that last year at this time all the students were telling me how China is such a peaceful nation, not like America.

[august03]

The people that shot him didn't want him dead, they would have done a better job. It's a scare tactic, not only for the President but for the people of Taiwan too, the voting on the referendum tomorrow is important for Taiwan and China's future.

[mjed9]

Scare tactics have historically had the reverse desired effect on a nation (re: Taiwan's previous elections and the China fleet). But who is trying to scare who?

I think its either a loner or (if I'm feeling cynical) maybe a scam tactic by the DPP to get the sympathy vote!

[rick_martin_78]

From NY times:

Nobody answered the phones this afternoon at the Taiwan Affairs Office
in
Beijing, while the Ministry of Foreign Affairs declined to comment.
Evening
television broadcasts in China did not report the shooting, and only at
7:56
p.m. did the mainland's official New China News Agency release a
single-
sentence statement noting Taiwanese news media accounts that Mr. Chen
and Ms.
Lu had been attacked.

But mentions of the attack began to appear by midafternoon in Internet
chat
rooms, possibly because many Chinese now have access to satellite
television
broadcasts from Hong Kong.

[trukesehammer]

A lot of friends "back home" have been bugging me about what's going on here with Taiwan's elections. Ah, the wonders of democracy! These guys make the Gore vs. Bush fiasco look like a power struggle in a monastery.

For those who are on the outside-looking-in, here is a rundown. On Friday night, there was an alleged assassination attempt against President Chen Shui-Bian. You can see details here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/03/23/chen.police.reut/index.html

Now, you have to remember that we're talking about President Tricky-Chen, a man whom Mainland China pegged as "a man with no morals." Many people here believe the "assassination attempt" was staged in order to draw more sympathy votes. Both he and his vice president, Annette Lu, appear to like sympathy votes a lot. Every once in a while, Annette will be sporting a cast or ankle brace, explaining that she "slipped and fell" while on the campaign trail. Meanwhile, Chen's wife rolls around the country in a wheelchair, looking anorexic and shedding tears at appropriate intervals.

Last Monday night, I heard a Taiwanese surgeon who works in a Chicago emergency room talk about how Chen's "bullet wound" was a total farce. When they showed the video of Chen going to the emergency room, he was walking unassisted, not wincing or holding his belly where the bullet supposedly hit him, and he looked like he was getting ready to run a marathon. The Chicago surgeon said that he sees gunshot patients all the time and there's no way a man could look like that if he were shot in the stomach --even if the wound were "superficial, non-life threatening, and only 2 centimeters deep" as claimed.

Another example of Chen's sneakiness: Local gossip says that most of the military over here (80-90%) is Pro-KMT (currently the opposition party here in Taiwan). On Saturday when the voting was to take place, President Chen issued an executive order placing all military personnel on duty; that way, they couldn't vote!

Hmmmmmm, the Demopublicans in the US could learn a thing or two from these guys.

[ScottSommers]

I'm no judge of gunshot wounds, so I can't say anything about that. But this executive order stuff to keep soldiers in their barracks...don't you even read the newspapers? It is not true. Even the China Post has this one straight.

Really...I mean really...do you know how Taiwanese end up serving in the army? They get drafted. Draftees are just like everyone else because...they are everyone else. It's the professional soldiers that graduated from army schools who are pro-KMT.

I don't know crap about gunshot wounds, but if I don't stop hearing this 'soldiers couldn't vote' rumour mongering, I don't know what I'm going to do.

[fat_chris]

[trukesehammer]

Scott Sommers has a pretty good handle on this one, folks, although I have to say we're ALL guilty of rumor-mongering and hearsay, especially in THIS forum.

All I can say is I got my information "Denial of Voting Rights" directly from one of those "draftees" touted by Sommers --a draftee who happens to be one of my relatives.

[ScottSommers]

I don't doubt there were soldiers who were denied the vote. There has never been absentee voting rights in Taiwan. That was a tradition established long ago under KMT martial law, and the DPP have not been able to address it in their 4 years in power. The problem is not absentee voting rights (which is a problem, just a different one), but how many soldiers were denied the vote.

DPP spokesman Lin Chia-lung was on TV almost immediately after this claim stating that only 13,000 soldiers were on duty and denied voting rights. Perhaps I missed it, but I have not heard of any Pan-blue calling him a liar. It is a claim that the government has repeeated and I have not seen any evidence to the contary even in pro-Blue newwspapers (have I missed something?).

Nor do I doubt that professional soldiers almost unanimously support the KMT. I just doubt that if 300,000 were denied the vote that all or even most of them could be professional soldiers. If it is the case that conscripts were denied the vote, they would certainly not be any different politically than Taiwanese men in general. How could they be?

I'm sorry about not realizing your source was as personal as a relative. After all, you did seem to be citing a very different source in your posting,

[quote]Local gossip says that most of the military over here
(80-90%) is Pro-KMT (currently the opposition party
here in Taiwan). On Saturday when the voting was to
take place, President Chen issued an executive order
placing all military personnel on duty; that way, they
couldn't vote! [/quote]

For a very different take on gunshot wounds and the Presidential assasination attempt, you might want to look at these testimonies from gunshot wound survivors.
http://forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=15996

[MTurton]

[trukesehammer]

At least Scott Sommers was a gentleman about his refutations; MTurton was downright... aaaaaah, "assertive."

Let me quit mincing words here. You have no idea who the hell I am or who(m) I talk to, so lighten up, buddy. I'll admit a certain prejudice against A-Bian politically, but I personally have nothing against the man, as he was always kind and very cordial in his dealings with me --ummmmmm, which means I need to lighten up, too.

Yes, I admit a little heavy-handedness in my previous post, particularly in my characterization of Chen and the jab at the Missus. For that I apologize.

But I will NOT apologize for my objections to A-Bian's POLITICS, which could very well, as everyone knows, spark World War III, or at least get many of us killed. Nor will I apologize for reporting GOSSIP as GOSSIP. The people "back home," for whom I posted, should be intelligent enough to decide for themselves.

===============================================

"...ghosts, exorcisms, fortunetelling, and other nonsense. Didn't anyone ever tell you that no matter how many people believe something stupid, it is still stupid? "

===============================================


By the way, any CATHOLICS out there? Remember this?

"We believe in one God,
The Father, the Almighty,
Maker of Heaven and Earth,
Of all that is seen and unseen..."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Frankly, I'll remain happy with my brand of "stupidity," and "simpleminded" religious faith, thank you very much.

[johnslat]

Dear trukesehammer,
Though no longer a practicing Catholic, I remember it well:


THE NICENE CREED (Constantinople, 381)
--------------------------------------

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended in heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Regards,
John

[MTurton]

[trukesehammer]

MTurton wrote: "This time around I am sure Chen will pursue closer links with the mainland, and probably open the Three Links everyone thinks will make Taiwan rich again."

Gawd, I hope you are right. I remember when he first got elected and extended an olive branch to the Mainland. WOOHOO! I wanted to be his campaign manager!

However, recent news headlines tell me the man keeps provoking China with pro-independence rhetoric. Yeah, I know Taiwan is ALREADY an independent country, but there has got to be a better way to deal with this. On the flip side, what I keep telling my friends on the Mainland is their government has it all wrong. If "Da Lu" really wants Taiwan back, they should try killing Taiwan's leadership with kindness. Instead of opposing Taiwan's UN membership, PROMOTE IT. Ditto for the WTO, the WHO and all those other "Os" which require statehood. Moreover, whenever various Taiwan issues come up, China should always be there to "stick up" for it's Little Brother. Eventually, the two sides would stand united no matter what the politicians said. Then again, maybe I'm just dreaming.

MTurton further wrote: "And the current bit of political theatre in Taipei is confined to Taipei. The rest of the island is completely normal, so anyone should feel free to come."

I second that. Here in Hualian, the taxis are still running, the tourists are still hiking, and the birds are still singing. Even with all this RAIN.