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Question about CTESL in Toronto (both training and working?)

 
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Kaitou



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Question about CTESL in Toronto (both training and working?) Reply with quote

Hey all,
I actually have a couple of questions, but I thought it might be best to give you a little background first.
I'm currently a linguistics major who will be finishing school in April, and am hoping to do one of those intense 4-6 week CTESL programs in Toronto (or somewhere else in the GTA). After that I'm hoping to teach in Japan for a few years, and I am considering teaching in Canada after I'm back as well, depending on how I find it. I've only taught part-time for a couple of months, so I'm not entirely sure if I'd like to be a teacher in the long run.

As such, I have a couple of questions...

Does anyone have any recommendations for CTESL programs in Toronto? I've been looking at TESL Canada's list of schools, and since they're all affiliated with TESL Canada I suppose they should all be reputable schools. However, CELTA seems like it might be the way to go from what I've heard.

This leads me to my second question:

Although a CTESL may be enough for teaching in Japan, would it not be enough to work in Canada despite the experience I would've gained? I'm hoping my BA in linguistics might give me an edge, although it certainly doesn't compare to an MA.

Thanks for any and all input!
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 854
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about CTESL in Toronto (both training and worki Reply with quote

Kaitou wrote:

This leads me to my second question:

Although a CTESL may be enough for teaching in Japan, would it not be enough to work in Canada despite the experience I would've gained? I'm hoping my BA in linguistics might give me an edge, although it certainly doesn't compare to an MA.


I'm in BC so I can't speak for an Ontario program (or Japan), but as long as "X" program that you take is either TESL Canada Level I or II from the list below, it will be sufficient to teach in Canada.

http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON

Yes, a BA in Linguistics (as opposed to say, English Literature) would be preferred. (*In Canada, don't know about Japan)

BUT...

You will still be limited to mostly poorly paid part-time work in private language schools. If there is an opening, please try for a program like LINC, which is government sponsored and pays a good wage. LINC is usually part-time, though Sad

If you are not sure about teaching at this time, that's fine. If you wish to continue teaching when you return to Canada, I would strongly suggest either provincial certification (for public schools) or an MA in TESOL/Adult Education, etc. depending on what age group you like. With a BA in Linguistics + "X" years teaching abroad, you shouldn't have an issue getting into an MA program (assuming your GPA isn't 1.5 or anything like that!)

That being said, go to Japan or wherever and make your decision from there.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 1900
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:59 am    Post subject: Re: Question about CTESL in Toronto (both training and worki Reply with quote

Kaitou wrote:
Hey all,

I'm currently a linguistics major who will be finishing school in April, and am hoping to do one of those intense 4-6 week CTESL programs in Toronto (or somewhere else in the GTA). After that I'm hoping to teach in Japan for a few years, and I am considering teaching in Canada after I'm back as well, depending on how I find it. I've only taught part-time for a couple of months, so I'm not entirely sure if I'd like to be a teacher in the long run.

As such, I have a couple of questions...

Does anyone have any recommendations for CTESL programs in Toronto?


UofT, York, Humber etc. look up TESL Ontario. They take a year full-time. The university ones are the same as a masters degree in Applied Linguistics from other countries. A four week certificate would be fine for entry level work outside of Canada, but they tend to cost almost a third of a year at a community college, so they seem like a bit of a waste to me. Your problem is that between all of the provincial colleges and universities, there are several hundred graduates with one-year programs specifically to teach ESL in Canada graduating every year. Most of them will go to Toronto, because that's where the market is (and where most of the programs in this are as well, anyway). These programs require a practicum, so every single person who graduates has actual experience teaching ESL.

Quote:

Although a CTESL may be enough for teaching in Japan, would it not be enough to work in Canada despite the experience I would've gained? I'm hoping my BA in linguistics might give me an edge, although it certainly doesn't compare to an MA.


You don't NEED any training beyond degree to 'work in Japan'. It depends on what you want to do. The market here is flooded. And so without the little box marked "Applicant has a TESOL certificate" being checked, it would be harder to get a job here- plus salaries are dropping and conditions are worsening.

If you want to teach ESL in Ontario, then there are private language schools, who could hire anybody they wanted. That's the kind of thing that TESL Canada is really for. There are also LINC programs. They are government run and if you can get a job through them, then are better than language schools, but they still aren't going to pay a whole lot or anything. You would need a TESL Ontario certificate to get a job in LINC. There are also the community colleges and universities. You would need a masters degree in TESOL or Applied Linguistics to work in them.

If you wanted to work in another province (but not Quebec), then you could get a LINC job with a TESL Canada certificate, so long as their provincial affiliate didn't have stricter requirements.

A degree in linguistics won't help you all that much (but it may knock one or two of the requirements off of a university program in TESL).

I think there are basically two routes you could take for training: 1. Get a cheap private TESOL certificate that won't teach you a whole lot that you couldn't get from an hour in the library, plus little nuggets like "If you smile, people will smile back", and use that to get an entry level job in Japan or Korea or Taiwan (where it is now easier to get those kinds of jobs). Then you work for a few years and do a masters degree off-campus in TESOL or Applied Linguistics. 2. Get an expensive TESL certificate from a university in Ontario (for which OSAP is a possibility), applying to JET while you do it, and if you get into JET, then you're basically set for having both the time and the money to do an off-campus masters in TESOL (for which you would be able to get transfer credits from the university TESL program) or going back to Ontario and doing a program on-campus (or by distance through OISE/UofT) deciding to do mainstream teaching (without teachables, you'd be applying for the primary/junior level, though I've heard they are now starting to ask for university level study in virtually everything elementary teachers teach, so you would need university calculus so that you can teach 2 + 1 to five years olds etc). You could do the same with a community college certificate in TESOL, but I don't know if you'd get any transfer credits for it. Also, about the transfer credits- it seems that you can't get them from universities in the UK. You would probably be doing your masters from a university in Australia (or maybe New Zealand). Universities there have a heavy functionalist (socio-linguistics) bent.

I did the second of those options. When I came to Japan, I thought I'd be here for the three years (or more) on JET and then return to Canada and do either a masters in Applied Linguistics or a B.Ed (I would have applied to both junior/intermediate and intermediate/senior sectors because I have two teachables- English and history)- that decision was one of the things I wanted to get done in the first couple of years on JET. Instead, it's over six years later, I've done a masters degree off-campus and am going to be here until I retire.
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Chancellor



Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 1335
Location: Zibo, China - if you're willing to send me cigars, I accept donations :)

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about CTESL in Toronto (both training and worki Reply with quote

santi84 wrote:
Kaitou wrote:

This leads me to my second question:

Although a CTESL may be enough for teaching in Japan, would it not be enough to work in Canada despite the experience I would've gained? I'm hoping my BA in linguistics might give me an edge, although it certainly doesn't compare to an MA.


I'm in BC so I can't speak for an Ontario program (or Japan), but as long as "X" program that you take is either TESL Canada Level I or II from the list below, it will be sufficient to teach in Canada.

http://www.tesl.ca/Secondary_Navigation/TESL_Canada_Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs/Recognized_Teacher_Training_Programs.htm#ON

Yes, a BA in Linguistics (as opposed to say, English Literature) would be preferred. (*In Canada, don't know about Japan)

BUT...

You will still be limited to mostly poorly paid part-time work in private language schools. If there is an opening, please try for a program like LINC, which is government sponsored and pays a good wage. LINC is usually part-time, though Sad

If you are not sure about teaching at this time, that's fine. If you wish to continue teaching when you return to Canada, I would strongly suggest either provincial certification (for public schools) or an MA in TESOL/Adult Education, etc. depending on what age group you like. With a BA in Linguistics + "X" years teaching abroad, you shouldn't have an issue getting into an MA program (assuming your GPA isn't 1.5 or anything like that!)

That being said, go to Japan or wherever and make your decision from there.
To get the TESL Canada Level II certification, you need a four-year Canadian degree (in anything) or a four-year degree evaluated by a Canadian degree evaluation service (like the one at University of Toronto) and you have to complete a TESL certification program that meets TESL Canada's criteria.
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Kaitou



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the responses guys.
I made a big mistake... I'm a linguistics major in my 4th year at Carleton, but didn't really come interested in teaching English until somewhat recently. If I had decided earlier, I could've done the CTESL program here at no extra cost since the CTESL courses would've counted towards my major as well. Now, if I wanted to I would have to go to school for another year and pay an extra $2000 or so ontop of rent... oh, how I regret not deciding earlier.
Gambate, you raised some good points about the cost though. Going back to school part-time would definitely be worth it if I can picture myself doing this as a career. I've got some thinking to do!
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Kaitou



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, just one more question!
If I did decide to enroll in a CTESL programme at a university like Carleton or York that is a member of TESL Ontario but not TESL Canada, does that mean I would not be able to teach outside of Ontario within Canada? I'm just curious, because I've heard there is a decent market in Vancouver for CTESL.
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 1900
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 854
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaitou wrote:
Sorry, just one more question!
If I did decide to enroll in a CTESL programme at a university like Carleton or York that is a member of TESL Ontario but not TESL Canada, does that mean I would not be able to teach outside of Ontario within Canada? I'm just curious, because I've heard there is a decent market in Vancouver for CTESL.


Just be warned, there is a lot of low paying part-time work available, but the cost of living is outrageous. You might need to hold 2-3 part-time jobs in order to pay your bills out here, as you might make the same $ at Starbucks. PDP provincial school certification is the only way to survive in Vancouver, unless you have an MA with lots of experience and can get some work in a college/university.
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Symphany



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 110

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaitou, an additional point which may not have been addressed is how soon you wish to start teaching. You might want to have a look at the Japan board for more info on good times to apply, but the peak hiring time in Japan is in the spring--specifically April, with interviews being held two or three months before (at least) and people starting their jobs in April/May. Now that said, its not impossible to get jobs at other times but its less busy (meaning fewer opportunities), with the exception of JET with a nearly year-long application process that starts in September.

Unfortunately, what I have been hearing, mainly from the Japan job board is that the Japanese market is saturated, with not many jobs available, however people are still getting jobs, they just seem harder to find, so if you're really intent on going there I wouldn't let that discourage you.

Back to the timing issue -- if you are okay with waiting an additional year or more before you go, and you plan on teaching anywhere in Ontario (I'm not sure about the other provinces) before you travel or when you return, it would be best to do a one year TESOL program at one of the universities in Ontario --if you're in Toronto that would mean York or University of Toronto. The reason being that most decent paying positions (and even many of the lesser paying ones) will demand a TESL Ontario certificate from you before you will be allowed to teach there. On the other hand, if you know that teaching abroad is something you want to get started within the next year, then doing an intense 4-6 week TESL program will definitely be a good investment. Any amount of relevant preparation you do, whether it be 4 weeks or 4 years will not go wasted.
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Kaitou



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the input, everyone. I really appreciate it! I was really unsure about... well, pretty much everything.
Apparently, I've gotten into JET this year. I didn't have such a good feeling about how the interview went, but to my surprise I made the short-list. I suppose I'll just go with JET, and see how things go from there.
Thanks again!
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GambateBingBangBOOM



Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 1900
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations! That's how I started in Japan, too!

I'd already done one of those one year TESOL certificates from an Ontario university (and consequentially entered JET with a tonne of debt), but if you are on JET, and decide that you want to teach English for your career, then you might want to skip the Ontario university CTESL stage and do a masters degree off-campus with a university in the UK or Australia (or New Zealand) after your second year on JET. The most popular off-campus program in Japan is through Birmingham University in the UK (there's a lot of advertising for it here. Google "David English House").

Benefits;
1. time. JETs generally have far, FAR more time than any other English language teachers in Japan.
2. cost. JETs get paid more than other newbies in Japan. Plus, most JETs are in rural areas, and the off-campus work would help to keep you occupied if there aren't other native speakers to talk to etc.
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Kaitou



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! Doing a masters off-campus is definitely something to consider...
The programme with David's English House looks good, and it's even convenient (with a local tutor and all). The benefits you've listed seem to be convincing too. I just hope my GPA is still half-decent by the time I'm done this year!
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dmocha



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject: Should you join TESL Ontario? Will it help you to get a job? Reply with quote

Should you join TESL Ontario? Will it help you to get a job? Except for LINC classes, where the LINC providers have decided to embrace TESL Ontario, no one seems to have much time for it. Once you join, you will have to pay membership fees for the rest of your life. Not cheap.

A TESL Ontario certification is not issued by the Province of Ontario e.g. MCTU Ministry of Colleges, Training and Universities. It is not a 'license'.

http://esljobfeed.com/esl-tesl-teachers/index.cgi?md=read;id=1635
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