Job Discussion Forums

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject:

Always weird when they try for complete reversal. Even questions of race or nationality can give a strange impression.

I used an elementary textbook for a while, can't remember the name, in which the setting, a first grade classroom in English, is presented as containing one, and only one, minority child belonging to every minority the writers could think of.

One Indian kid.

One Native American kid.

One "Asian" kid.

One Muslim kid.

One Jewish kid.

One white kid of northern European descent.

A Latino kid...

You get the idea.

All the confused little Ecuadorians asked me, "Where is this class where all the kids are from all over the place?"

New York, I'd tell them. And London.

Best,
Justin

steki47 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka

Chancellor · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject:

steki47 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka

gaijinalways · Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279

Sashadroogie posted

Nozka · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 50 Location: "The City of Joy"

I realize that all some teachers do is follow a textbook or some set curriculum, but others of us need to make choices about what to teach, and that means we are invariably bringing our opinions into the classroom. Some of us may be more objective about this than others, but no one is completely objective. If I'm the teacher, and I get to make the choice, why shouldn't I use topics that are interesting to me and challenge my students, especially if they respond positively to them?
Modern language curricula - as far as I know - are generally developed around language functions and/or tasks. What do my students need to do with language in the real world? Expressing opinions, discussing ideas, agreeing and disagreeing are important language functions that take up much of our language time. What do you think this forum is about?
This fear of opinion in the classroom is not about cultural hegemony, it's about cultural relativity. And what could be more PC and sacrosanct (in the ESL world anyway) than the doctrine of cultural relativity? I think it's this doctrine that deserves some critique.

Chancellor · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject:

Chancellor · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:35 pm Post subject:

Sashadroogie · Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:05 pm Post subject:

I am surprised that anyone would not see the problem with teaching learners foul language in the classroom. Apart from the vulgarity issue, I do not know many learners, apart from vulgar little teens, who would want such material in the lesson. Most of them have a pretty good idea of the basics of 'Anglo-Saxon' anyway.

But maybe that is where I have been going wrong all these years. Shame on me. I don't teach them how to tell sexual jokes either, or to blaspheme or to chant neo-Nazi football slogans. Just because I'm a language teacher, doesn't oblige me to engage in communication that I find offensive, and which the vast majority of cultured people also do. Is that a presumption? A pretty safe one.

Just curious, but have you never heard of students going to the boss and complaining that their teacher was being disrespectful to them by using/teaching such material? Or worse again, their parents complaining? Such a sheltered life if so.

johntpartee · Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 3258

Some of the students and teachers and the FAO have asked me about swearing, they hear it in Western movies. I explain it to them the best I can (with the students it's one on one, I don't stand in front of the class and discuss it). One of the students thought that "darn" was REALLY bad. I explained that that's one you could say in front of your maiden aunt, no prob. It's always seemed ludicrous to me that "these letters in a certain order are bad". Are they bad because they're forbidden or are they forbidden because they're bad? Anyway, swear words in order of severity:
"C" word (referring to female pudenda)
"F" word (and all variations thereof, with "MF" probably the worst)
"CS" (fellatio)
"GD" (taking the lord's name in vain)
"SOB"
The upside of this has been that now the FAO knows when I'm REALLY angry about something.

Nozka · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 50 Location: "The City of Joy"

Sashadroogie · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:00 am Post subject:

Are we now saying that they only learn how to think critically after attending our EFL lessons?

Nozka · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 50 Location: "The City of Joy"

Sashadroogie, no.

But a surprising number of people do not learn critical thinking skills in any classroom, and that goes for both East and West.

If I'm teaching reading, I need to teach skills like inference and deduction. These things are tested on exams like TOEFL by the way.

Even if the students are not being tested in such a way, why shouldn't they learn it? Won't it make them better English learners, better readers, and better students in general? Why would I say, "that's not part of the English language, so I won't teach that?"

And please don't tell me that students already know these things. A significant percentage don't - the majority in some areas, and I'm not talking about children either.

steki47 · Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Posts: 1029 Location: BFE Inaka

johnslat · Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:07 pm Post subject:

Dear Nozka,

"I need to teach skills like inference and deduction . . . . . And please don't tell me that students already know these things. A significant percentage don't - the majority in some areas, and I'm not talking about children either."

Maybe I simply haven't taught in those "areas." but in my experience, students do already "know these things." What they often don't know is what we call them - i.e. inference and deduction.

Regards,
John