Job Discussion Forums

[thegoodprofessor]

I'm trying to decide on one of these two countries. Here are a few things that are important to me.

1. I can bring my small dog with me and feel he is safe.(he's a traveler already)

2. Good Salary for someone with MA/ 10 yrs international exp.

3. Decent and low cost living situation (so as to be able to save)

4 Nice working staff.


I'm sure there is more but these four things are what feel most important to me.
Feel free to pm me anytime

[anubistaima]

Well, dog meat is popular in both Cambodia and Vietnam. I never lived in Cambodia (only traveled there) but lived in Vietnam with two dogs for a year and a half. Actually, arrived with one dog and bought the second one at a meat market in Sapa. That should give you an idea of what to expect.

They made it out fine (we're now in Thailand) but I was extremely careful. Dog theft is common in Vietnam and stray dogs are aggressive, so you need to be careful when walking your dog. Leaving him unattended, even for a few minutes, is a big no-no. I don't know about HCM but there's only one vet in Hanoi. She's Danish and excellent, but the facilities are extremely limited. One of my dogs needed an x-ray once and we actually paid a local (human) clinic to let us come in through the back door and have the x-rays taken in total secrecy.

I know others will disagree with me, but I think Vietnam is expensive. USD500 in Thailand gets me a villa with a private pool. In Hanoi, you won't find the same thing for under USD1200. Cheapest house I ever saw (never lived in apartments because dogs are big) was $350 and it looked from the past century (not in a charming way)

Can't help with the ESL thing, as I wasn't there teaching.

[deessell2]

[anubistaima]

Let me second deessell2's post about Vietnam not being a civilized place. It's not. And it's so exhausting to deal with overpricing on EVERYTHING just because you're a foreigner.

[MrMrLuckyKhan]

CAMBODIA is more developed than VIETNAM?!?!?! I'm not sure of your definition of 'developed' but Cambodia has only ONE building with 34 stories, and has only recently opened up more than ONE kfc. I would agree the vibe is much better here (Cambodia) than in Vietnam for foreigners, but to say Cambodia is more developed than Vietnam, I can't even imagine what someone could possibly mean by that....

[anubistaima]

I assumed you're talking to deessell2? I'm not sure I would call Cambodia more developed, but it's definitively more civilized.

[deessell2]

[sigmoid]

Have to agree with Mr. Lucky in that Cambodia is NOT more developed than Viet Nam. People here are talking about a few select parts of Phnom Penh.

Actually, it's kind of a moot point as NEITHER country or city [Phnom Penh vs. Ho Chi Minh City/Ha Noi] is really that developed or westernized.

Phnom Penh just has fewer people, so there is more space, less traffic congestion and less population density. So, yeah, it feels a little more 'laidback', a little more 'open'.

In terms of your items 2 & 3 on your list:

Salaries and rates of pay for teachers are much lower in Phnom Penh while the cost of living is only slightly lower, mainly for rent.

The food situation in Viet Nam is bad, but somehow it's worse in Cambodia: bland and overpriced food. It's a good place if you need to lose weight.

VN has FREE wifi available nearly everywhere. Most places in Cambodia do not have any kind of internet connection.

I'm not sure if the conditions at schools [classrooms/staff rooms/bathrooms, etc.] are worse in VN or Cambodia. Both are generally pretty bad.

You should probably consider somewhere else.

[Camvieindlib]

I couldn't comment on which country is more suitable for a dog or dog owner, but having taught in both countries I'd like to share my opinions:

OK, to start with I taught in Phnom Penh, Cambodia and Hai-Phong, Vietnam.

If you want to save money and money is your main motivation for going to either country then I would have to say that Vietnam is the better choice. You'll make more money and the cost of living can be a lot cheaper, especially if your school/university provides accommodation.

If you want to form friendships with colleagues, again from my experiences, I'd have to say that Vietnam would be the first choice. I found that the staffroom in Vietnam to be more integrated and the western/local staff often mixed socially far more often than Cambodia.

If you want to have complete personal freedom, I'd choose Cambodia. There are no restrictions (other than how much cash you have in your bank account) regarding things like renting apartments, transportation, travel, entertainment. ....In Vietnam there is a lot of bureaucracy and it can feel like the authorities are keeping track of you at all times.

If you are an American citizen, you might feel more comfortable in Cambodia than in Vietnam - I do know that Americans are not well received in all parts of the country, especially by the older people.

[Sudz]

Sorry but "the food situation in Viet Nam is bad"? I've heard this from more than one person, and I'd like someone to explain this.

After living here for some time, I seriously am baffled by claims such as this. Where did you live in VN?

[sigmoid]

[Sudz]

Fair enough that you're not a big fan of Vietnamese food. When you mentioned 'the food situation', I thought you were referring to every type of food within the city (including international restaurants).

Yeah it's very subjective, BUT I'd personally rank Vietnamese food up there with Thai food - though the two are very different. Big fan of most of the soup dishes, except for perhaps Bun Mam (not a fan of the shrimp paste....yuck!), Banh Xeo (quite unique), Bun Thit Nuong, most of the 'rap them and eat them' type dishes, along with a lot of others. Just as you might say that you find Vietnamese food bland, I might say that I find Thai food too sweet (not a huge fan of coconut milk). To see if from your side (as well as others), Vietnamese food is a little more SUBTLE that Thai food (hope I don't sound snobbish), and many would agree that it's a little bland in comparison. Though to be honest - despite being in Thailand many times - I stuck to curries perhaps a little too often, and as a result haven't had a ton of exposure to their cuisine; perhaps I'd agree with you after living there. I definitely like Vietnamese food more now after many years of living here, and have really only become a big fan after sampling a lot of different dishes over the years. My palette has definitely changed.

Looking at it from an aesthetic point of view, yeah Vietnam isn't up there with Thailand yet in terms of customer service, though over the years I've found some very nice, clean restaurants (well....I THINK clean. I haven't been sick here in some time). Just got back from a nice courtyard restaurant on Le Quy Don street. Great food and unimposing waiters (though the motorbike parker did try to blatantly overcharge me.....a different topic altogether!)

I'm a little on the fence with fish sauce (fairly popular in Thailand too I believe). I do like it in small doses, but I find it to be overused, and sometimes overpowering. Again it's subjective. Also, some of the higher-end Vietnamese restaurants tend to use a lot of lemon grass, which I'm also not a fan of.

Anyways I don't want to deconstruct this too much, as I don't really consider myself a cuisine expert. I just like what I like

[tefl peasant]

Saigon more developed (but this does not mean better, for everyone).

Phnom Penh is less developed, has a more relaxed life, but lower wages.

I used to go back and forth between both cities for a couple of years. Then it was OK, now it isn't (only speaking for myself).