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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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 Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: THAILAND IS A GREAT PLACE TO VISIT,BUT GLAD I DONT WORK HERE |
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Yeah, title says it all. Let's look at the facts:
1) Terrible management that can do anything they want to you because there's no law to protect you in case they do something completely unjust like asking you to bend over and t..... And actually, that seems to happen quite often. The style and quality of management here implies that only the best butt smoochers survive.
2) The school system is so bad, even highly educated Thais are embarrassed about it... and you have to work in it! Yes, I have not met a Thai person, yet, who is happy about the education system here. They have this idea about systems in general that 'people work for systems -- good or bad' instead of the normal convention, 'systems work for people to do their jobs better'. Thais know the education system is bad, but its just another bad system they can't change..mai pen rai!
A) Part of that bad system implies you work along side some of the most corrupt, dishonest, 2-faced people anywhere in any of the education systems of the world; bad systems cause normal people to become bad.
B) You yourself will be forced to do unethical things with your students such as passing ones who are weak students just because they have rich parents, or giving them all tests or assignments that have nothing to do with what they are actually studying just for face of the school or some director.
3) The turnover rate for foreign teachers has to be one of, if not the highest in all of East Asia. Why? Thai's can't accept teachers who dont do things, "the Thai way" (which, by the way, usually sucks). Thai management has almost no reason not to fire teachers for anything from coming into work with your top button undone to forgetting to wine the director of the school. Whereas Thai employees are somewhat insulated from being fired -- especially in any kind of government positions -- foreign workers are seen as visitors who can be dismissed at the drop of a hat. Both in terms of opinion and law.
4) The visa process costs a lot of money (250-300$US) and you will have to get a new visa and usually start the whole process over each you leave and come back or get fired or quit a job. And because of 3 from above, that seems to happen to the majority of people here quite often. I'd guess the average teacher who can stomach working here spends 5-600$US annually on visa-related expenses. Quite a lot considering you're only making 1000$US in most cases.
5) Face it, compared to Korea, Taiwan, and China, you'll be working a lot more, having to get dressed up very nicely (men wear a tie, usually, and women must wear a dress), doing many more extra things such as English camps any time they want you to...FOR A LOT LESS MONEY!
6) The country has a lot of cool places such as Phuket, Koh Samui, Chiang Mai, and Pattaya... but those places are usually NOT where the ESL jobs are... and on the salary you'll be making as and ESL teacher here, you wont be able to afford to go to those places very often if ever at all.
7) Tickets to and from Thailand and other better-paying places such as China, Taiwan, and Korea are cheap!
So, yeah, if you're reading this and thinking about working here, think long and hard! |
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NigerianWhisper
Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Oh dear.
Having a bad day?
Must say that the school I work at pays about the same salary as other Brit curriculum schools elsewhere in the world.
Guess I must be lucky.  |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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There's people in every country who are "lucky". And then there are the 99% of the teaching population who are not so lucky who comprise "everyone else".
Have not taught for a British cur. school, nor do I know how much they pay, but a quick scan of nearly every Thai job website including this one reveals that the vast majority of jobs here pay about 1000$US per month; University jobs pay a meager 800$, usually. Public secondary jobs a little more. Pathetic...
And, I didnt work today, so my day was fine. Nearly every day working with Thai managed schools was, however, bad |
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roguegrafix
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Guess I'm lucky too. I don't wear a tie but a polo shirt. I don't sign in. I pay 1,000 baht for my visas and work permits (the uni pays the rest). I don't have to go to immigration for the 90 day check (the uni does that). I have complete control over what I teach, how I teach and when I teach. I can and have failed many students either because they didn't make the grade or cheated. The uni backs me in all this. I get paid overtime if I work for more than 12 hours per week. I only work Monday to Thursday. If I do English camps I get paid (the last one I did was 5,000 baht per day). And I have a lot of opportunities to make extra money. Ah bliss to be in this top 1% |
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takgeyon
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Hey pest2! What's wrong? Slow trolling day on the Korea forums?
Let's take a look at your observations:
| Quote: |
1) Terrible management that can do anything they want to you because there's no law to protect you in case they do something completely unjust like asking you to bend over and t..... And actually, that seems to happen quite often. The style and quality of management here implies that only the best butt smoochers survive.
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Wow! That sounds a lot like most peoples' experience in Korea.
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| The school system is so bad, even highly educated Thais are embarrassed about it... and you have to work in it! |
Again, not at all different from the Hermit Kingdom.
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A) Part of that bad system implies you work along side some of the most corrupt, dishonest, 2-faced people anywhere in any of the education systems of the world; bad systems cause normal people to become bad.
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You mean like Koreans. So why is it that you also belong to the Korean board?
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| 3) The turnover rate for foreign teachers has to be one of, if not the highest in all of East Asia. |
So where does the term "midnight run" originate from? Do tell.
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| Why? Thai's can't accept teachers who dont do things, "the Thai way" (which, by the way, usually sucks). |
So you've never had to explain to your hogwan/public school director as to why your educational methods differ from the absoultely superior Korean ones which are the best in the world and emulated buy all cultures?
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| foreign workers are seen as visitors who can be dismissed at the drop of a hat. Both in terms of opinion and law. |
So being a dirty, white foreigner who is in Korea solely to pollute the "Pure Joseon bloodlines" and haranged and castigated in the media, not allowed to have a normal phone contract, a bank card that will work outside Korea must be a normal break from all the fun and sun here huh?
| Quote: |
| 5) Face it, compared to Korea, Taiwan, and China, you'll be working a lot more, having to get dressed up very nicely (men wear a tie, usually, and women must wear a dress), doing many more extra things such as English camps any time they want you to...FOR A LOT LESS MONEY! |
Well true somewhat but at least come vacation time there is something to actually go and do as opposed to sitting in your cubicle apartment because the roads are too congested to get anywhere because the Borgs are all on the move to the "Big Houses" cause "Confuscious would have wanted it that way". Not to mention that there are usually more fun things to do at the local Big C than therre are in the entire Korean pinnensula.
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| 7) Tickets to and from Thailand and other better-paying places such as China, Taiwan, and Korea are cheap! |
Tickets from anywhere in Thailand to anywhere else are cheap. But try to buy tickets in Korea from a ticket agent who refuses to sell you any flight but a Korean Air or Asiana and your flight out of there can end up costing you about $2000 US. Remember Korean airlines are the best in the world and also the most expensive to prove it. Also Koreans generally know this and snatch up all the China Air and Thai air tickets 12 months in advance of any nationally scheduled school break.
So go back to Korea pest2 and enjoy your superior public school job with the comfort of knowing that the 6 figure gig back in your home country will be waiting for you if and when you decide to return. If I ever meet a expat teacher from Korea who didn't come from or was returning to a 6 figure job I'm not quite sure how I'd respond.
Last edited by takgeyon on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| roguegrafix wrote: |
| Guess I'm lucky too. I don't wear a tie but a polo shirt. I don't sign in. I pay 1,000 baht for my visas and work permits (the uni pays the rest). I don't have to go to immigration for the 90 day check (the uni does that). I have complete control over what I teach, how I teach and when I teach. I can and have failed many students either because they didn't make the grade or cheated. The uni backs me in all this. I get paid overtime if I work for more than 12 hours per week. I only work Monday to Thursday. If I do English camps I get paid (the last one I did was 5,000 baht per day). And I have a lot of opportunities to make extra money. Ah bliss to be in this top 1% |
I know a guy in Korea who makes 100,000$US a year, teaching. Most, almost everyone else, doesnt make that amount...
But, thanks for sharing, its interesting to know there is that one guy out there who.... |
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pest2
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: |
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| takgeyon wrote: |
Hey pest2! What's wrong? Slow trolling day on the Korea forums?
Let's take a look at your observations:
| Quote: |
1) Terrible management that can do anything they want to you because there's no law to protect you in case they do something completely unjust like asking you to bend over and t..... And actually, that seems to happen quite often. The style and quality of management here implies that only the best butt smoochers survive.
|
Wow! That sounds a lot like most peoples' experience in Korea.
| Quote: |
| The school system is so bad, even highly educated Thais are embarrassed about it... and you have to work in it! |
Again, not at all different from the Hermit Kingdom.
| Quote: |
A) Part of that bad system implies you work along side some of the most corrupt, dishonest, 2-faced people anywhere in any of the education systems of the world; bad systems cause normal people to become bad.
|
You mean like Koreans. So why is it that you also belong to the Korean board?
| Quote: |
| 3) The turnover rate for foreign teachers has to be one of, if not the highest in all of East Asia. |
So where does the term "midnight run" originate from? Do tell.
| Quote: |
| Why? Thai's can't accept teachers who dont do things, "the Thai way" (which, by the way, usually sucks). |
So you've never had to explain to your hogwan/public school director as to why your educational methods differ from the absoultely superior Korean ones which are the best in the world and emulated buy all cultures?
| Quote: |
| foreign workers are seen as visitors who can be dismissed at the drop of a hat. Both in terms of opinion and law. |
So being a dirty, white foreigner who is in Korea solely to pollute the "Pure Joseon bloodlines" and haranged and castigated in the media, not allowed to have a normal phone contract, a bank card that will work outside Korea must be a normal break from all the fun and sun here huh?
| Quote: |
| 5) Face it, compared to Korea, Taiwan, and China, you'll be working a lot more, having to get dressed up very nicely (men wear a tie, usually, and women must wear a dress), doing many more extra things such as English camps any time they want you to...FOR A LOT LESS MONEY! |
Well true somewhat but at least come vacation time there is something to actually go and do as opposed to sitting in your cubicle apartment because the roads are too congested to get anywhere becasue the Borgs are all on the move to the "Big Houses" cause Confuscious would have wanted it that way. Not to mention that there are usually more fun things to do at the local Big C than therre are in the entire Korean pinnensula.
| Quote: |
| 7) Tickets to and from Thailand and other better-paying places such as China, Taiwan, and Korea are cheap! |
Tickets from anywhere in Thailand to anywhere else are cheap. But try to buy tickets in Korea from a ticket agent who refuses to sell you any flight but a Korean Air or Asiana and your flight out of there can end up costing you about $2000 US. Remember Korean airlines are the best in the world and also the most expensive to prove it. Also Koreans generally know this and snatch up all the China Air and Thai air tickets 12 months in advance of any nationally scheduled school break.
So go back to Korea pest2 and enjoy your superior public school job with the comfort of knowing that the 6 figure gig back in your home country will be waiting for you if and when you decide to return. If I ever meet a expat teacher from Korea who didn't come from ar was returning from a 6 figure job I'm not quite sure how I'd respond.
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[/quote]
Takeyeon or whatever you call yourself on here,
No, actually i havent looked at the korea forum for like 2 years or so. How is it? Are you a regular there, now, too?
1) I NEVER had bad experiences with jobs in Korea like the ones I have here, repeatedly. I had plenty of bad experiences in Korea, but nearly all of those had to do with life not at work. Sure, Koreans are xenophobic, the place is boring, and actually living there can be hard. The worst kind of work-related problems I had there had to do with making sure the school secured me a decent apartment (which, by the way, schools in Korea pay for; here in Thailand you pay it yourself), and maybe one or two other weird issues... However, all told, 3 contracts completed in Korea, I managed to save about 40,000$US total. Here in Thailand, over a year, I actually lost 4000$ of savings.
2) How many Koreans did you meet who complained about their education system the way Thais do???? The only common complaint I heard in Korea had to do with the testing system and excessive pressure put on students at a young age. Not so many complaints (but maybe one or two) about government corruption, greedy teachers who fail students who dont pay extra for after school classes, and a general endemic hatred of teachers in their own public school system.
3) Koreans don't stick to the same old systems the way Thais do. Koreans have their systems and sometimes they dont seem to make sense, but its not because those systems haven't changed. For the most obvious example, notice how the economic policies of the Korea and Thailand have differed quite a lot over the last 50 years. The policies of the former have been adjusted and focused on success in the rapidly changing global economy. The policies of the latter... haven't really changed at all. So now, like before, Thais are still growing fruits and ripping off tourist as their primary income source whereas Koreans are manufacturing high-tech finished goods.
4) English teachers in every country do midnight runs. The teaching market is a lot bigger in Korea and they spend a lot more money on this kind of industry. There are more teachers so there are more cases of midnight runs. Midnight runs in Korea are a liability to employers there and a much more noticeable thing. It can be quite detrimental to schools in Korea which have invested money in airtickets, key money for apartments, and visa fees, in case teachers run amid contract. Conversely, Thai schools have almost nothing to lose in case a teacher does a midnight run. At the half-way point in a typical Thai teaching contract, the school will not have invested a single red cent in a teacher. So they dont have anything to lose in case they want to fire you for having a runny nose and the only problem for them in case you leave without notice is about how to cover your classes. Usually, to cover the classes, they simply make the other teachers do it and if those other teachers are lucky, they might actually get paid a little extra until the school might decide to hire a replacement. Again, pathetic.
5) Koreans??? 2-faced?? Um.. have you actually worked in both Thailand and Korea, before??? Well, only speaking from personal experience, Koreans are a lot more communicative and they will let you know their side of things (now, in cases of everyday life not necessarily having to do with work, those opinions are often quite annoying and yeah, quite rude).
6) As a conversation teacher in Korea, I just did my job -- teach conversational English. For the 2 years I taught read write listen speak, sure, there were differences in opinions about how to do that. I think the biggest difference is that, while the Koreans have their own way of doing it and it doesnt seem to make sense, the Koreans at work actually give a rat's arse about it... Thais seem obsessed with whether it looks like you are doing something instead of if you actually are doing something. Again, thats just my experience and Im sure others have had different ones.
7) This quote, "So being a dirty, white foreigner who is in Korea solely to pollute the "Pure Joseon bloodlines" and haranged and castigated in the media, not allowed to have a normal phone contract, a bank card that will work outside Korea must be a normal break from all the fun and sun here huh?"
For one, I dont even know anyone in Thailand who has a phone contract... most people, Thais included, just use prepaid. But I guess thats aside from your point. Yeah, when it comes to daily life, being a waygukin in Korea is a lot worse than being a farang in Thailand. But what I'm talking about here is working in Korea vs working in Thailand. So you had it backwards. A normal break from working in Korea, while you make enough money to do so, is a nice trip to Thailand for fun in the sun.
 I know if you buy a ticket from Thailand to Korea, its about 400$US one way. because my gf's friend does it regularly. Maybe its more if you buy in Korea? Anyway, if you make 2,500$ a month (for example, work for EPIK and go on your fully-paid month off from work), spending 1000$ one month to go to Thailand isnt such a big deal... whereas, if you only earn 1000$ a month, you can really only afford to go to.. um... Huahin, if you wanna be a big spender.
I dont know where I will go or what I will do, but for sure it won't have to do with teaching in Thailand. May not make the 6 figures, ever,... but I dont wanna be trying to survive on 4 figures, either. And thats what teachers in Thailand do.
MOD EDIT: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=84011 |
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