Job Discussion Forums

[itslatedoors]

You sound like a great diplomat.So,ALL truck drivers bash and insult and teachers somehow are different from the PEOPLE who do other jobs.Excellent,why aren't you working for the U.S.foreign office?I suppose that catholic priests are all perverts,soldiers all killers,women all secretaries and Americans clueless about global self image....Oh really?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Hello itslatedoors

Thank you for the compliment, I think. Truth be told, I do have a political background, but I gave up on that a long time ago.

Do I hold myself to a higher standard than long-haul truck drivers and professional wrestlers? When it comes to choosing my words, Hell yes! Don't you? Oh...really?

As for the generalizations about priests, women and americans... you won't find me making those assertions.

My sole purpose in starting this thread... was to ask people to be civilized with each other, even in disagreement. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now ... if I could just get George Jr. and Sadam to sit down together over a cold beer, a few dirty jokes and a handshake...I'd be the happiest dictionary-wielding ESL-teacher-turned-diplomat on the planet.



Regards,
Kent

[TaoyuanSteve]

Hello.

This is certainly an interesting topic. Just why are people so rude to each other in forums such as these?

I think part of the reason lies in the means of communication. It's much the same as email in the case of these forums. It does not allow those reading the messages to know how to "take" the message in the same way that speech does (although emoticons help). There is a lot of misunderstanding because readers don't receive the whole message. There is no body language or tone of voice and so on in a written message.

Another issue is the anonimity of these kinds of message boards. People can and do say all kinds of stuff they wouldn't say in person because they are anonymous here.

Finally, some people are just prone to uncivilized comments and behaviour. Unfortunately these forums sometimes, magnet-like, attract these sort of people.

[Ann]

Kent,
I agree with you whole-heartedly. However, it is not easy to take a discussion seriously when it is prefaced with "How long have YOU been in this field?" or "What are YOUR qualifications?"
Not that I want this or any other forum to turn into a mud-slinging match. But it's really pathetic to observe so-called professionals behaving in such an unprofessional manner.
Arioch, your opinion of me is unimportant.
Yes, we are all judgmental. And yes, we all reserve the right to our own opinions. But the only people who have displayed their better-than-thou attitude is you and bnix.(referring to your self-righteousness).
If you read my other posts on professionalism in ESL, you will realize that I am NOT for backpacking teachers. However, I do not see myself in a position to snub them.
In my opinion, a professional is one who doesn't have to scream about his/her qualifications. They are always evident in his/her responses and teaching. I don't doubt your qualifications nor do I doubt bnix's. However, is there any reason why you must set yourself apart from the ones who are trying to enter the field? Do you have to pick up their slack? If so, good for you. WE ALL HAVE TO. THAT IS OUR JOB.
No, you are not in-charge of weeding out the backpackers. You are supposed to be professionals who are supposed to guide these misinformed people into a field that you have chosen and love.
It is really puzzling to me (as a professional) that you choose to look down upon individuals who don't take their profession seriously? Aren't you supposed to mentor them as professionals? That is what I learned from my worthy professors. The idea was to recruit new ideas and new people and turn them towards achieving worthy goals. I don't recall my professors ever saying that I wouldn't make a good teacher or that I could never envision an academic career.
So, I would like to lay this argument to rest because I am not interested in continuing this thread of conversation. There is only so much to be said about this.
All individuals have disagreements but I don't see the need to put down people just because they don't have a bunch of diplomas or degrees or enough experience. Didn't you start out once?

[Kent F. Kruhoeffer]

Dear Ann,

I couldn't have said it better myself. Maybe this is a good opportunity to make a sweeping generalization, which would summarize your excellent comments:

EFL veterans need to be a little more patient and understanding with the 'newbies'.

AND...

'Newbies' should try to show a little respect to the vets.

It's a two-way street. If we would just consider those two simple ideas ... before we jump to the keyboard, I could delete this post and we could all live and learn together in peace. That is the real goal, isn't it? If it's not, I'd like to go on record as recommending that it should be.

Like I've said before, I am an optimist. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Best wishes,
Kent

PS: My sincere 'thanks' to everyone who shared their opinions and thoughts on this topic

[khmerhit]

itslatedoors advised us

[fat_chris]

A kinder gentler forum?

NEVER!

[Joachim]

This is going to be a very jumpy post, but in response to the above:

I find it endlessly entertainling how seriously people can take this message board, I have read posts from people who sound seriously hurt or upset by something they've read. I find it incredibly puzzling that some posters seem determined to islotae themselves from their compatriots and colleagues in this way as well.

It doesn't take Freud to work out that usually the more vicious posters are clearly the most unhappy and bitter in their lives, and for whom the entertainment this forum provides is of far more importance.

This is a profession with no "policing" and no real support network - it really is very itnerestign to be able to speak to other ESL teachers in other countries like this and in an ideal world it would be a lot more supportive and a lot less bitchy.

As for the "backpacker element".......... I agree it can be a problem when people with no intention of taking their responsibilities seriously walk into a job because of the colour of their skin and their national status, playing havoc with a school and disrupting their students' routine. But I think that quite often it is the younger, more dynamic "newbies" (I HATE that word) that can breathe life into the industry.
It is always going to be an industry with a high staff turnover, we just have to accept that. ANd if there were (higher) global ESL standards ten many third world nations wouldn't be able to afford native speaker teachers whatsoever.

[Wolf]

[hesterprynne]

Funny, Kent F. Kruhoeffer-----I met many retired teachers driving long-haul across the United States. What standards would you hold them to?
A word to the America-bashers: people who are as enlightened as you think you are should find better ways to spend your time.

[davidla]

Kent
Stay optimistic!
This message board reflects human nature - that's why, even on such a sweet, well-intentioned post as yours, people are still "having a go" at each other. The only other board I regularly look at is about my football (soccer) team, and they get quite abusive with each other as well.
It's sad, but it's human nature - still, as long as you stay as nice as you are, that's the main thing.
Davidla

[Sara Avalon]

Wow... away for a few and look how many posts have sprouted.

Poor bnix! (aka. itslatedoors - why do you have two usernames anyway?) Y'all should give the funny man a break! Anyone who can spout out an impassioned speech about how many would-be EFLers are unqualified to teach English while contradicting his own point is giving newbies (such as myself) a free lesson in the art of hypocrisy. Last I checked, fluency involved being able to WRITE. English grammar involves punctuation too, mate.

OP,
I've discovered from the aishaaish thread that trying to get others to learn how to play nice is about as easy as getting a cat to pose on a potted plant: They won't do it unless they FEEL like it. And since this is a public forum where just about anything goes, why rob the poor, oppressed svckers of a place to rant, rave, and rage? Everyone needs some kind of emotional outlet to regain their manhood.

[khmerhit]

33333333

[dmb]

Sara, itslatedoors was an angry young man. One day he got banned from the forum. So he became passive and reinvented himself