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Noelle · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 361 Location: USA

Hi all

I teach in a university prep program here in the U.S. and a HUGE number of my students are Saudis. They are here on scholarship-- maybe some of you are familiar with it-- it's offered for something like 5 years and the students are taking Intensive Academic programs as they plan to apply for undergrad or grad universities here.

Anyhow, I teach a pretty difficult class called University Study Skills and Academic Preparation which is an elective intensive course for students already accepted into an American university. They are going to be doing research papers over the next 10 weeks. Today, I received my first fully plagiarized assignment from a male Saudi student and while I wasn't at all surprised, I do wonder what the attitude toward plagiarism is among these people.

I've had a lot of experience with students who plagiarize; it is a big problem in Asian countries. They don't see any sort of ethical dilemma involved and can't understand why it is not acceptable. Is this going to be the same song and dance with Arab students now?

I teach Europeans and Latin Americans here too. They get it. I've never come across a plagiarized assignment from any of them and to my knowledge, neither have my colleagues.

The assignment I am referring to now is extremely simple and did not require any kind of research. The student simply disregarded my instructions, went online, copied and pasted sections of an article and handed it in. I found it immediately and stapled it to his work. He is not going to be a happy camper tomorrow when I return it to him with a F on the top. Our program is pretty strict and we have a zero tolerance policy for plagiarism.

Input here would be greatly appreciated. I want to know if this is something I should expect from the Saudis. I already expect it from many Korean and Chinese students as I've lived and taught in both both countries.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I taught on a similar programme for Saudis in the Netherlands and plagiarism was an occasional problem - but not so pervasive as with our few Asian students. We were able to communicate clearly that it's NOT ALLOWED, and they get it - but it took one or two incidents such as the one you describe.

You're doing the right thing (as you know) by slamming this immediately. Word will spread. Now that's a characteristic of Saudi students - they do collaborate with each other when in foreign contexts - and in this situation, it's a good thing!

On another note, there were always a few of our many Dutch and German students who also tried the plagiarism route - not all Europeans 'get it' inherently!! Every year there was a 'team paper' or two, and the plagiarism software we use caught a few efforts from online sources. Those students faced very severe consequences, up to losing their place at the university. Don't give Europeans the benefit of the doubt in every case - though you are correct that they are less likely to try it, and there are cultural/societal strictures in place that frown upon it.

johnslat · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:32 am Post subject:

On the other hand, when you catch someone plagiarizing, it's a great opening to teach paraphrasing. Laughing

Regards,
John

P.S. I caught three Latin American students just this session. They'd had to compare and contrast two sports /hobbies, and one of them actually cut and pasted George Carlin's well-known bit:

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/humor7.shtml

Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

fladude · Joined: 02 Feb 2009 Posts: 432

Kind of a sad plagiarism story, I teach a special education (ESE) course for low level readers (which I am not trained for and should not have been assigned to). One of the kids always plagiarizes his assignments. Since he can not read or write beyond a handful of words, it is always obvious that he has copied and pasted off the internet. Also since he can't read or write he often copies and pastes things like adds or just bits and pieces of a story. The kid is so low level though that I don't do anything about it. I'm not trained to deal with this and shouldn't even be in a class like this (as a teacher). I feel really bad for the kid. His entire family died at a young age and he basically lives being passed around by relatives. I just kind of smile about it. I mean I know its plagiarism, but still at least the dude did something. He showed some initiative right....

I would not feel the same towards Saudis though....

mashkif · Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Posts: 178

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I wouldn't say openly in the classroom who committed the crime, even in the West, regardless of the nationality of the student(s). Worst case, I might say 'someone' has done this and so it's a good opportunity for us to discuss how seriously plaigairism is viewed in this institution....

But that's my point about the Saudi students abroad - they will tell each other. I'd wager that before your next class break, every Saudi student in the class and possibly in the whole institition will know that someone got caught and penalised.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Noelle · Joined: 26 Mar 2005 Posts: 361 Location: USA

Thanks for the quick responses here from everyone.

I do know better than to generalize and assert that Latin American and European students won't do this. But the fact is, in our program, they WON'T. This is a pretty sought after university language program in California and prior to registration, students are told of the consequences of plagiarism. Plagiarism = academic probation= a higher GPA requirement, which if not accomplished= expulsion= loss of visa/deportation.

What's discouraging is that of all the groups represented, the Europeans seem to be the least motivated and dedicated, especially compared to the Asian and Arab students. But they are the ones who adhere to the policy on cheating/plagiarism.

So I can only conclude that the pressure on these other students is so much that they ... 1. feel the need to cheat in order to succeed and honestly don't realize they'll be caught ... OR 2. are here because their families are forcing them to be here and they could care less about the rules.

With the Saudis in our program, they are all on scholarship and their program is intense. They struggle with writing like no students I've ever encountered and the concept of academic honesty appears to be as foreign to them as it is to the scores of Asians I've taught and currently teach.

This particular student I've mentioned in my original post is already on academic probation and so it's a mystery to me why/how he's been accepted in a university here since they require a letter of recommendation from us. Perhaps he got in before his status changed to probation.

In any case, if he is already on probation and has plagiarized, the consequences are more serious than they would be for other students. In other words, he could potentially lose everything. I'm not sure I want to be a part of that. And I'm also not sure that mentioning the incident in class is a good idea (as already mentioned, Saudi's are also big on saving face I'm guessing, especially men).

I have to admit though, I'm thinking it could be very effective for the other students in the class. If I were to put a section of the plagiarized article on the overhead and show the original source-- then lead into an lecture on plagiarism... we'll see...

I'll be back!

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

johnslat · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject:

I usually attach the web site(s) on another sheet when I hand the paper back. Then I have a little private talk with the individual, followed by a general discussion of plagiarism and the possible consequences.

I'm teaching these Latin American students at a fairly prestigious institution here: The Santa Fe University of Art and Design

http://www.santafeuniversity.edu/

They pay big bucks to attend. On the plus side, I haven't had any instances of plagiarism since those three that I caught (at least, I'm pretty sure I haven't Very Happy

)

Regards,
John

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Ms Noelle and I have been PMing about this and the problem is that this student is already in a program in the US and has been placed in a class - for various reasons - that is not EFL/ESL remedial writing, but a standard first year Comp research course. When you are teaching such a course in the Gulf, you can target it to shared issues. The reality is that this guy shouldn't be in the course as he will never be able to pass without extensive tutoring... something a teacher shouldn't have to deal with at this level.

There are lots of details in a situation like this... scholarships and both governments rules for students... not to mention university pressures. I guess we have made Noelle aware that this is a problem that is too big to cure in a one semester content level course. This fellow likely requires a semester or two of intensive remedial writing plus basic research.

VS

Bebsi · Joined: 07 Feb 2005 Posts: 958

Ahhh, OK.

That does indeed put thins in a different perspective. If it's a Comp Research course, well then obviously the student has to work outside of class. It does create quite a dilemma, doesn't it!

I won't ask why he is in that group, but I can hazard a few guesses as to possible reasons!