Job Discussion Forums

[Hector_Lector]

Why not try Yemen? Apparently, even deadbeats can work there.

[anthyp]

Well there is a difference between attempting to give honest but tough answers to people who ask politely for them and sheer mockery, scot. Don't pretend like you are doing anyone any favors with your snide posts.

When we were taking our TEFL course in Barcelona the job advisors told us flatly we could be hired illegally, and could build up enough hours that way, etc., and that this was commonly done in Spain (but maybe not elsewhere in Europe). Actually one of the reasons I decided not to work in Spain is because of the whole issue of working legally. But from what the job advisors told me, and what my friends working there have said, it's pretty common to work "under the table." If something is common enough that it happens all the time, I don't know why you would make a big deal out of it. Are you really that concerned with Spanish labor laws? You can find work in Spain without a work permit, and although it's technically illegal, it sounds like it happens often enough so that it's one of those things the government just lets slide.

[longtimeteach]

All Americans wishing to teach EFL in Europe:

You have at least one serious disadvantage; you don't have EU citizenship and it's required for many teaching positions. Therefore, it seems reasonable that, in order to try and overcome that disadvantage and get hired anyway, you should have the best teaching qualifications available. An online TEFL isn't considered one of the best qualifications.

In my experience it's normally the Americans asking how to teach English in (____) without a degree, without an English degree and/or without a teaching certificate - be that a TEFL and/or a university acquired teaching certificate. Teaching English as a foreign language used to be open to the un- or under-qualified backpacker set. Thankfully, it isn't any longer so.

To post a question regarding teaching EFL/ESL and following it up with something on the order of "I don't have the time or money to get qualified but I'd like to do it anyway" presupposes a certain arrogance and laziness. It's no wonder someone blasted the first poster on this - especially if the person providing the answer HAS bothered to spend time and money to achieve qualifications. As has been said many times, "Just because you can speak the language doesn't mean you can teach it to others."

As a matter of interest, I've taken both the CELTA and the i-to-i online TEFL. I had to laugh when I read that one poster found the i-to-i online course to be 'rigorous.' It's nothing of the sort and very little preparation for teaching EFL.

Students pay good money to learn English and they're entitled to have teachers who are qualified to teach the language and have invested time, effort and money in the proper training. To 'offer' them less seems arrogant in the extreme.

[anthyp]

Although I take my teaching responsibilities very seriously I'd just like to add one things in the OP's defense. He did not say, "I don't have the time or money to do it but I'd like to anyway." What he said was, "I don't have the time to take a four - week intensive TEFL course and want to know if an online certification would help me get teaching positions in Spain." The answer is yes. Most companies want EU natives, yes, but as I said I have plenty of American friends working there "under the table."

I agree that the tone of the OP was rather worrisome. You shouldn't get into this if you aren't seriously committed to teaching. It's a real job and you have a great responsibility to your students. But you don't have to be rude or arrogant to get this point across. It's not necessary to play the "My credentials are better than yours, what makes you think you can do what I do?" blame game. The man asked a simple question. Adults answer questions in a rational manner. They don't call each other names and get into petty arguments. Grow up already. Again there is a difference between helpful if negative responses and arrogant mockery which only an idiot, or a child, would not understand.

[scot47]

Maybe the oldtimers expect the newcomers to be slightly deferential. When you are asking for advice, you should take your hat off !

[lostinparis]

[Mouse]

But it is more difficult for non-EU residents, though, isn't it? And that increased difficulty might deter some employers who already have a glut of potential EU employees, mightn't it? Even if this is true, of course, it might be a good thing -- only the good employers would take you, and they'd look after you, too. Maybe?

[scot47]

I am truly flattered that "lostinparis" should mistake me for a citizen of the most powerful state on Planet Earth.

In fact I am a subject of Her Britannic Majesty, having been born in Scotland 57 years ago.

I have never been further West than Dublin, nor further East than Bangkok.

[michelle ashley]

Being American I can appreciate the concern re: working legally in Spain and Europe as a whole. I work in Madrid for 3 different "academias" and I�ve never had any problems whatsoever.

I went to a school in Madrid called EBC and part of their job placement assistance is the resumes are sent out to around 80 "academias" in Madrid and other cities in Spain.

So before we even made the normal follow up call, the academias are already calling us for an interview. Most of us didn�t have enough time to chill out after the intensive 4 week course because the academias were always calling! It was kinda hectic especially when you wanted to maybe "party" a bit more before working!

All these "academias" already knew who the EU�s and non-EU�s were. Despite this, I was interviewing with around 10 or maybe 12 schools the first week after I finished the course.

No one mentioned work visas or anything like that. They asked me about my TEFL course, some asked me grammar questions, one just asked me when I wanted to start! This is pretty much what happened to most of my classmates, again EU and non-EU. Working straight after the course.

So my point here is if working 20-25 hours a week, getting paid anywhere between 13-16 hours an hour, earning around 1000-1200 euros a month is not your scene then yes, maybe you should try to get a work visa arranged from the States.

The thing is even if you have a work visa but your Spanish isn�t good enough, then most likely you�ll end up teaching English to start off anyway and I know that EU�s and non EU�s are paid the same hourly rates.

The difference in hourly rates depend on the schools that hire you. Some pay better some worse.

I know that getting a work visa in the States takes a lot of time but most probably it can be done.

As for me, I�m fine as it is, I don�t break the law, I enjoy myself, I teach, I travel and I�m happy with this kind of arrangement for at least the next year and a half.

When I�m ready to go back home, after I�ve travelled and seen more of Europe, then I�m sure I�m gonna bring with me a lot of great memories.

I�ve got friends coming in for the May course and lucky them! Madrid has the "Royal Wedding", the great May Madrid weather , then teaching English at the many summer camps (July, August) in Spain.

I�m also doing some summer camp work. I�ve been with serious Spanish managers for some months now, I�d like to hang loose with the kids this summer! Not having to worry all the time that maybe I wasn�t too sure on that grammar question!!!!




Michelle