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Opportunities with my experience in Malaysia or Singapore

 
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DragonJade



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:24 am    Post subject: Opportunities with my experience in Malaysia or Singapore Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

This is a cross post from the General Asia Forum. I hope it's ok to repost. Here's the thread from the other forum:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=88139


I've been teaching in Japan for the last 10 years and I'd like to move to either Malaysia (Ipoh, preferably) or Singapore in the next few months. I was wondering if there were any job opportunities with my experience, and what kind of salary I could expect.

In Japan, I've worked in 'English Conversation' schools, but now freelance, mostly teaching Business English and Business Skills at multinational corporations (Apple, Canon, Fujitsu, Nissan, etc.), and running Presentation Skills and Meetings training seminars.

I have also taught children's classes at a private Conversation School for a few years - aged three and a half onwards.

I'm British, have a degree in Computing, but don't have any teaching qualifications. Most of my training was in-house - teaching techniques, skills, methodologies, etc.

The contract on my flat is up soon and I figured it was time to set my sights on a new place and new challenges.


Thank you.
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Krakatoa



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:45 pm    Post subject: malaysia and singapore Reply with quote

You have no teaching qualifications?

My advice is to get a B.Ed (which with your degree and experience would take a minimal time to get through) or a Dip. Ed or last a PGCE.

I emphatically emphasize do not waste time or money with a CELTA as, in my opinion, you are not taught "how" to teach. You are taught how to "entertain the students.

Both Malaysia and Singapore speak English as they were outposts of the British Empire.

Any further questions feel free to pm me.

Krakatoa.
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wailing_imam



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 508
Location: Malaya

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you will be able to find a job. However, it'll take some time to find a decent job.
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DragonJade



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: malaysia and singapore Reply with quote

Krakatoa wrote:
You have no teaching qualifications?

My advice is to get a B.Ed (which with your degree and experience would take a minimal time to get through) or a Dip. Ed or last a PGCE.

I emphatically emphasize do not waste time or money with a CELTA as, in my opinion, you are not taught "how" to teach. You are taught how to "entertain the students.

Both Malaysia and Singapore speak English as they were outposts of the British Empire.

Any further questions feel free to pm me.

Krakatoa.


Believe it or not, in my line of work people with technical degrees and then with teaching experience are preferred over B.Eds.

And yes, CELTA might seem a waste of money (the teacher training I received was all from instructors with CELTA) but it seems to be almost a requirement for getting some sort of teaching job in Singapore or Malaysia. Not such a waste of money if it can get me a job or a higher salary and it can pay for itself.
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Krakatoa



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:29 pm    Post subject: Job Reply with quote

Dragon jade:

Your comment on the CELTA over a B.Ed shows to me how cheap
and nasty the esl industry is in Asia (malaysia and Singapore) and possibly elsewhere.

A one month certificate over four years of training?

In my experience the TESOL is a far superior certificate. Just my judgement!
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wailing_imam



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 508
Location: Malaya

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Krakatoa, can you qualify that last statement. When you say TESOL I presume you mean the Trinity TESOL. What makes this cert better than the CELTA? These are both the main players in the game and are both accepted by the British Council as legitimate qualifications.
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DragonJade



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Krakatoa,

Sorry, but it seems I may not have made myself clear enough.

In Japan, a technical degree is looked on more favourably than a B.Ed. in my line of work. If I'm teaching at a chip company, they want someone who understands what X-ray lithography is, or if I'm teaching an IT company, they want someone who knows what a linked list is, or what double buffering means. The average B.Ed graduate will most likely not know what any of those things are, but they will know how to teach, albeit geared towards school children.

Quote:
A one month certificate over four years of training?


Perhaps it was only the jobs I was looking at, but most seemed to require CELTA (as a minimum). I'd prefer a job which isn't teaching children. For one, I'm not very qualified to teach children, and I lack the experience.

I can understand why companies want people with CELTA - is shows that they have some kind of minimum training, although whether it sinks in and they follow it is another thing.

I used to be a staffing manager for a company in Japan where I hired teachers/corporate trainers. I interviewed a lot of people during my time. Some people had many years of teaching experience, but they were terrible teachers. Same thing when people interviewed with me with CELTAs. Apologies to all the CELTA holders, but it didn't mean too much for me at interview time. Just because you have it doesn't, in my eyes, mean you can teach. I guess the same goes for university degrees. I met a guy last year who was a Ph.D. in Education. Could not teach to save his life. He got canned in two weeks.

Something a lot of companies overlook is in-house training. Just because you don't get a certificate with it doesn't mean that what you learnt isn't of use or value. The in-house training I received was impeccable. I don't have a piece of paper to show for it, but I do have a decade long proven track work record in Japan.
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Krakatoa



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:40 pm    Post subject: Jobs Reply with quote

W.I. The way I see it any TESOL Certificate (Trinity or otherwise) is far superior to the CELTA. B.C. and other employers may disagree with me but my lifetime of experiences informs me that the CELTA soes not teach "HOW" to teach but rather how to keep students amused / entertained etc.

On the other hand the TESOL Certificate, I found taught me how to teach English . . .a more hands on system hence a more better system for the student who wants to learn.

Since returning home with ailments I now find students of many Asian nationalities here to learn English. They were students who had teachers (?) with various certificates inclusive of the famous CELTA. Those students can not string a simple sentence together in any tense.

CELTA / TESOL - - V - - - a 4 year degree. There is no contest.

Just my tuppence worth based on lmy life's experiences..
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Krakatoa



Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Jobs Reply with quote

Dragonjade: You have now made things much clearer. The bottom line is whether or not a prospective employer will / would employ you is up to them. As a suggestion, you may want to get some sort of referals from the employers in Japan or else where and present them. Also keep in mind employers may want a teaching certificate to appease authorities in the selected country.

Any furthe questions feel free to pm me
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DragonJade



Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for everyone's input.
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Nemodot



Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi to say the celta just shows you how to entertain students shows that that person obviously is clueless regarding the celta IMHO. It is an introduction to a delivery method in communicative teaching of English as a foreign language. As such it is highly effective. It doesn't teach you how to teach children as it lacks anything on classroom management which is essential with kids.

However in teaching adults how to communicate it is very worthwhile. It isn't a stand alone qual it us meant to be the beginning of development and training as an ESL teacher via cpd. Then later there is the delta. It is the bare minimum required to stand in front of a class of adults.

A PhD in education is a research degree in educational theory so anyone with any sense knows that has nothing to do with teaching adults or children.

So I find some of these posts lacking in real teaching knowledege. I btw have been a corporate trainer, a teacher of ESL to children and adults, and I am a certified secondary science teacher. All of which have some core skills but have quite varied teaching skill sets to be honest in my opinion.
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lizziebennet



Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: CELTA Reply with quote

I have done in-house training, a TEFL and a CELTA. I found the CELTA to be the most beneficial even if it was shorter than the other courses.

I was very good at 'entertaining' the students before I completed the CELTA and entertained the students during the observed classes. Despite that, the person who ran the course really criticized my teaching because I did not follow the CELTA teaching methodology. Every one of my classmates said that my lessons were the most entertaining for the students. This did not matter nor did it win me any points. The teaching methodology presented is not based on entertainment but on proven methods that are methods studied more in depth in most MA programmes.

The CELTA is more about immediate PRACTICAL APPLICATION than just writing assignments derived from previous experience and research done via books. This does not mean it is all about 'entertaining'.

The only negative I saw with the CELTA was that they focused on their particular teaching methodology and did not allow room for teachers practicing other styles.

Don't judge it badly just because of the length of time it is done in. I know a people that have said that their CELTA was more difficult at times than their MA TESOL.

DragonJade, if you have the time and money I would invest in a CELTA. Maybe you could even do it through the British Council in Singapore or Malaysia. This would give you an internationally recognized ESL/EFL qualification and give you time to build a few contact. It is easier to get employment in Singapore if you are there than if you are not.
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Josef K



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 42
Location: at the front of class picturing everybody naked

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One problem with doing the CELTA in Singapore - it costs nearly 4,400 USD. Compare this to Vietnam or Thailand (1,500) or even the certTESOL in Bali (1,800) and you get the picture.

The BC only offer it part time in Malaysia for 2,800 USD - not cheap either.
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wailing_imam



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 508
Location: Malaya

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, best go to Bali and do the Trinity TESOL at IALF. Think the price is much cheaper than here in Singapore.
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chromium



Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 69
Location: Dalian, China

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings people,

After reading about whether to do the Celta/Trinity, I wanted to ask the people with experience in Sing/Malaya, how much more do my chances improve in getting a decent job with a Delta and DoS experience?

Thank you for any advice/opinions
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