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On Behalf of my Brother

 
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ragazzo gallese



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:38 am    Post subject: On Behalf of my Brother Reply with quote

My brother has been bumming around Cambodia and Thailand on his savings for about six months now, but he is aware that he finally needs to get a job. He is actually very bright and has a Masters in Maths from one of the top UK universities.

He isn't interested in teaching English, but said that he wouldn't mind trying Maths teaching. He is looking at Phnom Penh.

In your opinion, would he be better trying the universities or international schools? He has no teaching certs or experience, but I know of a guy who got a music teaching job in an international school in China just because he had a degree in an in-demand subject.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Skyblue2



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Universities vs International schools.

Those are two totally different types of teaching:

Different ages (kids vs adults)

Different levels (from basic to very advanced)

Different types of pedagogy (and qualifications required)

There is not a great deal of demand for maths teachers at university in PP. One, not many people study maths there. Two, it's done mostly in Khmer.

As for International schools, there are only two genuine ones there (and 2-3 more lower tier ones), but they only recruit PGCE of B.Ed qualified people with a few years of teaching in their home systems.

I know several people at those schools. They didn't just realize they were bored of "bumming around" and that they were running out of money and then decided to find a job.
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ragazzo gallese



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am aware of the differences in levels and paedogogy, having been a teacher for several years.

I suspected that university work might be more suitable for him, and here in Saigon there are several international universities in which the medium of instruction is English. Perhaps the situation is different in P. P.

However, I mentioned international schools because I am also aware of people who have got jobs in them on the back of having a good degree in a needed subject. The schools subsequently put these individuals through a PGCE on the job. And I would have thought that a guy with an MA in Maths from Cambridge would be quite sought after by an international school, which is after all a business trying to sell a premium product to its customers.

Although I thank you for your (somewhat curt) advice, I take issue with your final sentence. People 'bum around' for a year for different reasons. In my brother's case, he was convalescing after a road traffic accident. It's a shame that so many people on this board take a high-handed attitude at times.
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Skyblue2



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragazzo gallese wrote:
I suspected that university work might be more suitable for him, and here in Saigon there are several international universities in which the medium of instruction is English. Perhaps the situation is different in P. P.

There is one uni from Malaysia and another from Turkey. Neither, as far as I know, has a big maths program. The rest are local, and none of them, as far as I know, has a big maths program. The Royal Uni (public) rarely hires foreigners, and when they do, they're more like volunteers or part of an agreement with a foreign government for a specific project.

Quote:
The schools subsequently put these individuals through a PGCE on the job. And I would have thought that a guy with an MA in Maths from Cambridge would be quite sought after by an international school, which is after all a business trying to sell a premium product to its customers.

I have never heard of this happening. To achieve certification, you generally need to work in your home country. Two years is often cited as the minimum experience requirement for respected international schools. Therefore, I don't see them "putting someone on the PGCE", though I may be wrong.

Quote:
Although I thank you for your (somewhat curt) advice, I take issue with your final sentence. People 'bum around' for a year for different reasons. In my brother's case, he was convalescing after a road traffic accident. It's a shame that so many people on this board take a high-handed attitude at times.

My apologies if I offended you. What I meant was that the two top-tier international schools in Cambodia (which are quite small and rarely recruit locally) will be genuinely suspicious of a young man who has spent the past year in the country doing nothing. They are likely to question his motives for being there, and for wanting to take up a job at this point, and the "I was recovering from an accident" line probably won't impress them.

As you said, he might be better off applying for those vaguely "international" universities. He could probably teach something outside of his specialization (e.g. statistics on an MBA course). He would likely be paid hourly in such a case, and it would not be entirely bad compared to the hourly salary of the average English teacher, but would probably just prolong his stay rather than provide him with any real long-term career prospects (more likely in the non-profit or private sectors).
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ragazzo gallese



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the advice, and apologies if I was tetchy before. It may be better for him to try a country with a bigger international university scene, such as here in Saigon. But I will certainly pass on your advice. Another option might be to go home for a year to do the PGCE, then do his QTS year in the UK. If he can bear to get chairs thrown at him for a year and be told to f--- off on a daily bases.

Thanks again.
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Skyblue2



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No problem. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.
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PattyFlipper



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best way to get a job in Cambodia (if you don't have the local contacts and network) is by knocking on doors. This can be a little frustrating initially, but persistence usually pays off. Being in the right place at the right time is often all it takes to get a foot in the door, although it may take a little time.

Skyblue2 gave you decent information, however I would suggest that if choosing to stay in Cambodia, your brother should not limit his possibilities. He will likely have a better chance of obtaining employment by taking a "scattergun" approach; i.e. approaching as many of the private universities and the private schools as possible, not just those with the word 'international' in their title (which in Cambodia is usually fairly meaningless anyway).

It is a while since I have had any direct involvement with the Cambodian education system, however I believe that maths was one of the core subjects in the compulsory Foundation year syllabus imposed by the Accreditation Committee of Cambodia on all private universities accredited, or seeking accreditation, by them - which in effect includes most of the tertiary institutions in the country. As the other poster stated, this may usually be taught in Khmer, however many if not most 'universities' teach in both Khmer and English, and this is often dependent on the nationality of the lecturer employed to teach a particular subject. They sometimes have difficulty in recruiting suitably qualified and experienced teachers for certain substantive courses, although Khmers will almost always be given preference. All private Cambodian universities (which is almost all of them) are businesses first and foremost, and keeping the fees rolling in is awarded a much higher priority than any academic or pedagogical considerations.

Scraping a living teaching maths will be substantially more difficult than teaching English, and your brother needs to be aware that it is unlikely that he will obtain a salaried position with attendant benefits. Most teaching work in Cambodia, particularly at the universities, is remunerated at a part-time, hourly rate.


Last edited by PattyFlipper on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NigerianWhisper



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragazzo gallese wrote:
Another option might be to go home for a year to do the PGCE, then do his QTS year in the UK. If he can bear to get chairs thrown at him for a year and be told to f--- off on a daily bases.



Reference your earlier post........the UK PGCE can ONLY be obtained from work and study within the UK. There are NO International schools that can put people through the PGCE program whilst working overseas.

The completion of the PGCE and the Skills Test automatically grants QTS.

I think you are referring to the NQT year.
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ragazzo gallese



Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 47
Location: Saigon, Vietnam

PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend of mine - a music graduate - got a job with an international school in China. He started work as a TA, but they were desparate for a music teacher, so they gave him the job without a PGCE, which he subsequently completed on the job. This involved him being flown back to the UK four times in a year for a couple of weeks at a time to attend seminars, but the school funded it. So yes, it is possible.
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MaiPenRai



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: BKK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are most definitely International Schools that will hire people with needed subject matter degrees and then train them on the job. Believe it or not, there are other options besides the UK PGCE, many that are better and more comprehensive. I know of at least 2 Inter schools that have done this through some local study and some time in Australia or UK.

As for the OP's brother. He may want to look at IB Inter schools. These schools often dont "require" QTS teachers, instead they want "IB" trained teachers. IB training would be much easier to obtain on the job than a PGCE, PGDE or B.Ed, or M.Ed. IB is the wave of the future and considered by many to be a more comprehensive educational philosophy compared to the oft used IGCSE.

He would stand a better chance of landing a good paying job if in Thailand though.
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fladude



Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 432

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

International schools are always hiring and sometimes firing people. I've seen that happen a few times and I haven't been working at an International school that long...... Believe it or not.... not all is always peaches and cream in the IS world. The International schools get their fair share of creepos and dingbats... just slightly fewer than language schools.

If you fire a certified teacher in the middle of the year, or if a teacher just takes off without notice (and I've seen both happen) the odds of finding a qualified replacement in a short period of time is pretty low. Sure they could look for a month and eventually get one, but how many schools want to have kids miss a month of class... or have a sub for that time (especially in a high school content area)? And even if they find a replacement... what kind of certified teacher is unemployed in the middle of the year? ? ? In that case, the school may well end up hiring someone who is just as undesirable as the person they just fired.

I'm sure a school in that situation would jump at a guy with a masters in the content area, especially for a high school position. If he does a good job they may keep him on even without quals. So just tell him to apply and keep applying. Eventually something is bound to open up, although he should try to be open to applying in neighboring countries as well (Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc....).

At the same time apply for jobs at language schools. I'm sure he can get one of those. Then while he is working and getting experience, he can just keep sending out resumes to schools. There are many private schools... some of them are accredited and some aren't. The one's that aren't are much more likely to hire an unqualified teacher, but even the one's that are will hire one now and then.
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