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Teaching at Internt'l Schools-Bucharest
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9602
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an automatic right to work in my spouse's country, but not others in the EU. This is accomplished on a case-by-case basis, and as the OP points out, it can be quite complicated.

I know of people in this case for whom the spouse's company has worked out a deal for work permits for non-EU spouses, but I also know quite a few spouses who simply aren't allowed to work - unless/until they stay in-country long enough to obtain citizenship.

I do not think there is a blanket EU rule on this, which is why I cited the countries I know personally for sure. I think that this will be country-by-country, and do not know Romania's rule on this.

It won't matter to the OP if she can get a job at an international school, though.
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Mike_2007



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep searching and searching and I keep coming up with the same answer on various immigration law sites for various EU countries - non-EU spouses are granted the right to work.

When you were applying for work in the countries you mentioned, was that pre-2010?
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9602
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I renewed my specialist visa for the Netherlands in March of 2010. I still needed the exceptional visa at that time - was not eligible to work simply because of being married to an EU national.

If things have changed, why would the OP be having trouble getting a work visa for France now?
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Mike_2007



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea what problems she's having in France. Well, she'd best be advised to consult an immigration lawyer in Romania, imo. It seems that the realities vary from the laws.

I know of a Polish citizen married to an American and he was allowed to work here. It still required some amount of red tape, mostly getting all the required documents from Poland to prove they were legally married - they'd married in the US and needed to register their marriage in Poland for the 'non-EU spouse' law to apply. I also know a Romanian who married an Australian guy and they've moved to Spain to work now and their research suggested he wouldn't need a special permit.

Anyway, if the school wants her, they'll get her a visa whether she needs one or not. Best of luck to her.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9602
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly - it's an interesting discussion, but it doesn't really apply to the OP in this case, as an international school can and will get her a visa if they want her and she needs one.

I suspect there isn't a blanket EU rule on this - it's very probably one of those areas of law where individual countries can still make whatever rules they wish.
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Mike_2007



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a blanket rule, that being the one about all EU citizens having the same rights as nationals of the EU country in which they have chosen to live in, and one of those rights being that their non-EU spouses have equal access to the work market, just as the non-EU spouse of a citizen of that country would have.

That's the theory at least, but some countries can impose additional restrictions or requirements, especially during transitional periods for the newer additions to the community. There's a seven-year period after joining in which these restrictions can be applied, so non-EU spouses of citizens of the countries that joined in 2004 can expect things to get easier from next year on. There are still another three years for citizens of Romania and Bulgaria.

Finally, I read that a lot of the officials are unaware of the (regularly changing) EU laws, and so just apply the old ones as an insurance. It's the same with the property laws here in Romania. According to EU law an EU citizen resident in Romania can buy land as freely as a Romanian citizen, but many of the lawyers, estate agents, and even the notary publics are unaware of this and refuse to allow the purchase to go ahead. You have to shop around a bit to find one who's clued up.
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spiral78



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 9602
Location: On a Short Leash

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really sure that this is not the case in all countries, regardless of when they joined the EU. The Netherlands is an original EU member, and my visa application went directly to Den Hague. I really doubt that they simply aren't clued in.

The OP is in France, and says her situation regarding work is complicated. She indicated that a school there that wants to hire her needs to apply for a special visa - this is exactly the case that I have been working under for the past four + years as well.

So, two of us who are directly involved in this type of situation have encountered problems, and in both cases in charter member countries of the EU with relatively effective legal systems.

We ARE automatically enabled to work in our spouses' home countries, but if it's a 'right' that we can work in all of the EU, that right isn't being honoured, by some of the most prominent member countries in the union.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike_2007 wrote:
Are you sure about that? According to europa.eu:

Quote:
If my family joins me in my new country, will they have the right to work there?
YES - Whatever their nationality, your family members have the right to work in your new country on an employed or self-employed basis. This means that no work permits can be required, even if your family members are not EU citizens.


My understanding of this is that the spouse can work in their spouse's country. So if their spouse is Italian, they can work in Italy, but not Spain for example. THough I think that if the spouse lives in Italy for X amount of time, then they can get permission to work in other countries.

BUT, I found these links
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1310299
some person says it only takes 3 months, other have said up to 3 years. Though the post is a bit old.

http://www.diyexpat.com/permits/married.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms_%28European_Union%29#Free_movement_of_workers Family members from non-EU states also have these rights.

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/justice_freedom_security/free_movement_of_persons_asylum_immigration/l33152_en.htm Family members of Union citizens who are not nationals of a Member State must apply for a residence permit for family members of Union citizens. These permits are valid for five years from their date of issue. (I guess it just depends how long it takes to get the permit)

I think Mike_2007 is right. Looks like things have changed and if you marry an EU citizen, you can work just about anywhere in the EU, provided your paperwork is in order.


Last edited by naturegirl321 on Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9014
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike_2007 wrote:
Finally, I read that a lot of the officials are unaware of the (regularly changing) EU laws, and so just apply the old ones as an insurance. It's the same with the property laws here in Romania. According to EU law an EU citizen resident in Romania can buy land as freely as a Romanian citizen, but many of the lawyers, estate agents, and even the notary publics are unaware of this and refuse to allow the purchase to go ahead. You have to shop around a bit to find one who's clued up.


In theory, IF the offices are open to the public and IF the people running the office know what they're doing Smile
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Mike_2007



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 344
Location: Bucharest, Romania

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, 'in theory' the spouse can work. I've just been reading the Romania legal code (thrilling reading to go with my morning coffee) and it says (my translation):

"Regardless of their nationality, the family members of an EU citizen who has the right to live in another member state also have the right to work as a salaried employee or on a self-employed basis in that state."

(Directive 2004/38/CE, Chapter V, Art. 23)

There are still a lot of hoops to jump through; you have to firstly go back to the country of birth of your spouse (in the OP's case, Italy) and have your marriage registered there, then register the EU spouse with the Autoritatea pentru straini (Foreigners' Bureau), then register the non-EU spouse as a resident in Romania as a spouse of an EU citizen who is registered as resident in Romania, and so on...

Probably quicker to just apply for a work permit through the school as the authorities are more clued up when dealing with that situation.
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