Site Search:
 
TEFL International Supports Dave's ESL Cafe
TEFL Courses, TESOL Course, English Teaching Jobs - TEFL International
Job Discussion Forums Forum Index Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

£24,000 to work in central London
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perilla wrote:
And I couldn't agree more with that! I lived in London for five years in the late 80s. At first I was hugely excited to be there . . .


I was going to school in London in the early 80s, and to be honest, it was a much more interesting place in those days. Although I wasn't living in London, I did enjoy visiting music and book stores, hanging on Carnaby Street, and witnessing all the weird and wonderful sub-cultures that existed back then. These days London, like most cities in the UK, is a bland derelict place that smacks of hopelessness. The cultural landscape is boring and predictable and most cultural events hark back to the past.(I read recently that the Wombles reunited and plan to re-release Wombling Merry Christmas on December 12, 2011. Wow!)

London used to be famous for its culture, now it's famous for its crazy prices, its crass materialism and of course for the recent riots, where looters went on the rampage in order to get a piece of the consumer pie. Who in their right mind would stay in a place whose song was sung years ago? The answer I suppose is someone who hasn't been overseas and tasted the fruits of a better lifestyle.


Last edited by slapntickle on Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was last there in 2008. I still loved it because of what's on offer. I agree that London's best on holiday, or if you're loaded and can live centrally. As with many huge cities, it can also be the most dismal place and that's especially true further out in the suburbs of greater London. Having to eke out an existence is no fun, and nor is spending a large amount of time travelling to and from your low-paid job.

Never mind the Wombles, here's a piece of British culture that's transportable:

That's entertainment (The Jam)
A police car and a screaming siren -
A pneumatic drill and ripped up concrete -
A baby wailing and stray dog howling -
The screech of brakes and lamplights blinking -

That's entertainment.
That's entertainment.

A smash of glass and the rumble of boots -
An electric train and a ripped up 'phone booth -
Paint spattered walls and the cry of a tomcat -
Lights going out and a kick in the balls -

I say that's entertainment.
That's entertainment.

Days of speed and slow time Mondays -
Pissing down with rain on a boring Wednesday -
Watching the news and not eating your cold tea -
A freezing cold flat and damp on the walls -

I say that's entertainment.
That's entertainment.

Waking up at 6 a.m. on a cool warm morning -
Opening the windows and breathing in petrol -
An amateur band rehearsing in a nearby yard -
Watching the telly and thinking about your holidays -

That's entertainment.
That's entertainment.

Waking up from bad dreams and smoking cigarettes -
Cuddling a warm girl and smelling stale perfume -
A hot summer’s day and sticky black tarmac -
Feeding ducks in the park and wishing you were faraway -

That's entertainment.
That's entertainment.

Two lovers kissing amongst the scream of midnight -
Two lovers missing the tranquillity of solitude -
Getting a cab and travelling on buses -
Reading the graffiti about slashed seat affairs -

That's entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-H0uIH5HHQ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most of us agree that it's difficult to live on £24,000 in London these days. However, instead of salaries going up, the trend appears to be that they are going down. The main reasons for this are that there a far too many teflers chasing far too few jobs. It's an employers market and they know that low salaries will still attract hundreds of applicants, many of them well-qualified. Further, some institutions in the private sector, notable INTO University Partnerships, are committed to shafting teachers when it comes to salaries. INTO's CEO Andrew Colin, for example, has boasted that INTO is "not trying to make money out of the tuition fees. That's the problem with both language schools and international education. If you only have tuition fees to make money from then the easiest way to increase your profits is to cut your teachers' wages. INTO is going to make money out of the buildings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTO_University_Partnerships

INTO generally pay around the £26,000 mark and have their teachers working a 40+ hour week, which can rise to more hours at the whim of management. In fact, your duties are outlined in the contract:

• Your job title does not define or limit your duties and you may be required to carry out other work within your abilities from time to time at our request.
• We reserve the right to introduce changes in line with technological
developments which may impact upon your job duties or methods of working.

http://www.into-corporate.com/media/152693/economics%20job%20description_10th_nov_2011.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously large numbers of available – and desperate teachers – are a real danger in terms of reducing employment conditions. It just seems to be bad generally for education conditions (students and teachers) everywhere, especially those countries with a conservative government. I wonder if universities like Oxford Brookes University will rethink their position on INTO whenever those funding cuts come into effect and begin to bite.

“University drops English privatisation plans” (30/5/07)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2007/mar/30/highereducation.administration

“Universities across England are facing large cuts to their funding according to figures from Hefce out today”. (17/3/11)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/17/university-funding-cuts-institution-hefce-universities

“The global impact of UK university funding cuts” (17/5/11)
http://theconversation.edu.au/the-global-impact-of-uk-university-funding-cuts-864

I was also in London in the 80s with my parents for a while. I remember the Brixton riots, the shop keepers in the East End boarding up their shop fronts before National Front marched through the streets, and significant numbers of people sleeping in those large cardboard boxes at major train stations. That was Thatcher’s Britain – the one the Jam sang about. The Tories are back in force.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slapntickle



Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

artemisia wrote:
I wonder if universities like Oxford Brookes University will rethink their position on INTO whenever those funding cuts come into effect and begin to bite.


I really hope not. De Montfort University(DMU) also rejected working with INTO recently. And with good reason. Most of these joint-ventures are losing money, or they were back in 2008/9:

The latest company accounts for INTO University Partnerships were filed at Companies House on 29 May 2009, for the year up to 31 July 2008. The accounts show that:

INTO University Partnerships made a loss of £1,173,239
The company's joint ventures made a combined loss of £3,337,466.
The losses recorded by the joint ventures with universities and colleges were:

INTO University of East Anglia/INTO UEA LLP made a loss for year of £36,000
INTO University of Exeter LLP made a loss of £723,583
INTO Newcastle university LLP made a loss for the year of £941,621
INTO Scotland LLP (a joint venture with Glasgow Caledonian University) made a loss of £212,923
INTO Manchester Ltd (a joint venture with The Manchester College, formerly with City College Manchester) made a loss for the year of £1,423,339


http://www.ucu.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=4112

INTO's official policy is to pay their teachers less, but maybe behind the scenes things are not quite as hunky-dory as their flashy website and periodic press releases admit. The UCU have stated on many occasions that these private for-profit providers are having problems recruiting the sizeable numbers of international students to feed to their partner universities here in the UK. Are we to conclude then that they are having cash-flow problems and need to keep their teacher's salaries down to a absolute bare minimum?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scot47



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 11696
Location: Ultima Thule

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better to get a job as a bus or tube train driver. Or go back to the Sands of Araby.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JimJam



Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 66
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your insights.

At this point in my career I'm looking for a place to settle down for the long term so I guess you have confirmed my suspicions that London is not that place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Phil_K



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 1815
Location: A World of my Own

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scot47 wrote:
Better to get a job as a bus or tube train driver. Or go back to the Sands of Araby.


Absolutely right, as this article shows:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/03/tube-drivers-salaries-50000
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
artemisia



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 867
Location: the world

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But who could handle being a tube driver? That must surely include danger money. At least buses are above ground and involve some human contact but given the abuse I saw bus drivers there get... maybe a lack of contact would be better!!

I once taught a Japanese tube driver. I really felt for him as he just didn't seem to know how to relate to anyone. His English was good though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> United Kingdom All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2011 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group

Road2Spain - TEFL and Spanish with one year student visa
EBC